A Netflix Original "Anime" Series.

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A Netflix Original "Anime" Series.

Post by Shingster »

As an almost lifelong Anime fan I'm starting to get really pissed off about this recent trend here in the west of calling an Animation production "Anime" just because they've adopted an art style that looks vaguely Japanese. Now, I've grown to completely despise the term "Cultural Appropriation" nowadays because of how it is so frequently and flagrantly abused, but I can't think of anything more appropriate to this recent trend than the appropriation an entire nation's animated culture. Anime is NOT a genre, it is an industry, and you cannot make an Anime series unless you make it in Japan and/or with a predominantly Japanese creative team. Period.

Yes in japan all animation, no matter where it comes from, is "Anime", but here in the west we adopted the Japanese colloquial way of referring to their animation as "Anime" precisely because the animation coming out of that country was unique and felt like something new and exciting and different to animation here in the west, so Anime was coined specifically to distinguish what was the authentic Japanese product. Now self serving cynical arseholes within the industry in the US now think that they just have to steal some character designs and their product is magically made authentically Japanese and they can sell it to the kids as a Japanese product, because that's what's cool nowadays. F***. Right. Off.

It's bad enough that Castlevania was and is promoted as Anime, but at least that was adapting a Japanese game franchise, but Netflix's recent Blood of Zeus, apart from being the most astonishingly generic, bland, and therefore interminably boring, animated program I have ever suffered through in my life, is also called "Anime" when, as far as I can tell, not a single Japanese person has had any involvement in any aspect of the show. Greek creators, american/english cast, American production house, and animation outsourced to two Korean studios. The art style isn't even instantly recognisable as Anime-esque either! It's every bit as generic and anonymous as every other aspect of this snoozefest.

Anyone else feeling the same way? Well obviously nobody is as pissed off as me about it because I'm the only one who started a thread to rant, but does it move the needle at all? I feel like I've finally become a fully blown old fart. don't get me started on how the yoof today call a season of a TV show a "boxset"! :D

I dunno I just see it as wholesale hijacking of a country's film industry just to sell films, and that is morally wrong IMO. I mean, never in this world would Netflix promote Master of None as a Bollywood original just because its main star and writer is an Indian american. Same with The Mindy Project, yet both of these series have more claim to being Bollywood productions than Blood of Zeus has to being Anime simply because their creators and main stars are actually of indian origin! :nuts:
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Re: A Netflix Original "Anime" Series.

Post by bumfrog »

me thinks you gatekeeping a bit too much.
Anime is NOT a genre, it is an industry, and you cannot make an Anime series unless you make it in Japan and/or with a predominantly Japanese creative team. Period.
Did you just make that up? Because it sounds like you did. Unless you can point me to a specific thing that states that "anime" is a protected thing?

I mean in japan anime just means animation as you've literally admitted. It doesn't have a specific style or story attached to it. It's just in the west we used the term anime to mean japanese style animation. There's no cultural appropriation going on. In fact you are getting worked up about a western definition for the term "anime" and then ignoring the Japanese definition of what it is - if anything you are the one culturally appropriating the definition of anime to mean what you want it to, when the japanese don't even see it that way ;) I'm not sure if you see the irony in what you are doing?
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Re: A Netflix Original "Anime" Series.

Post by Shingster »

I literally explained what the Japanese consider anime to be in my post, and no I did not "make that up", I've been a full on fan of anime since 1990, so when I tell you that the term was adopted here in the west to specifically distinguish between Japanese animation and everything else that is animated, you can take that to the bank! :cuckoo:

AFAIAA nobody outside of Japan ever referred to western animation as "anime" until Netflix came along (and Netflix did start out producing legitimate Anime originals before slipping western productions under that umbrella), and probably the first western animation that would have been referred to as "anime style", but certainly NOT anime, would have been Avatar.

Here's the definition of anime on wikipedia:
wrote:Anime is hand-drawn and computer animation originating from Japan. In Japan and in Japanese, anime (a term derived from the English word animation) describes all animated works, regardless of style or origin. However, outside of Japan and in English, anime is colloquial for Japanese animation and refers specifically to animation produced in Japan.[1] Animation produced outside of Japan with similar style to Japanese animation is referred to as anime-influenced animation.
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Re: A Netflix Original "Anime" Series.

Post by bumfrog »

My point still stands.

Words change meaning. In fact, as we've just discussed, the word anime has different meanings if you are in japan or not for example.
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Re: A Netflix Original "Anime" Series.

Post by Shingster »

What is your point? That I am culturally appropriating the term? That I am deliberately making it all up? They are not the same point but both are complete nonsense, Anime has only ever meant one thing here in the west: Japanese Animation. It was the term introduced specifically for one purpose: distinguish between the Japanese product and the western home grown industry. That's the meaning of the term in OUR culture, so when Netflix uses it they are specifically pointing out their product is the same thing as Japanese animation, when in the case of productions like Blood of Zeus that couldn't be further from the truth.

If Anime simply means all animation as you claim, why does Netflix distinguish between original animation and original anime in the first place? In this case it would be because Netflix think that simply adopting a particular art style makes their product Anime, which is really insulting to the entire animation industry of Japan, that this absolutely massive and varied industry can be summed up by a singular art style.

EDIT: If your point is simply "the meaning of the word Anime has changed" then please show me the evidence that the term Anime has shifted in meaning to simply "all animation" within our culture. My guess is that you're really going to struggle to find anyone outside of Netflix and mainstream journalists reporting on said Netflix shows referring to american product as Anime. If the meaning of the word has changed, why hasn't the wikipedia definition changed to fit?

Oh and to your accusation of "gatekeeping". As I clearly stated in my original post I have no issue with Netflix claiming Anime on their productions that have some form of significant Japanese input (either the primary creative team or animated in Japan). My problem is with the productions that have absolutely zero input from Japan.

Like I say: The only reason we're having this debate is because Netflix saw how anime was finally now a mainstream force and they took the laziest option they could possibly do to cash in on that. Netflix as a company have absolutely no interest in changing the definition of words. This is not a pedantic argument about the evolution of the english language, Netflix are only interested in the term anime because of its association to the Japanese animated industry, which is very popular right now. That's what they are interested in, riding on the those coattails. The right way is to invest heavily within the Japanese animation industry or at least in Japanese talent and churn out high quality and authentic product, the wrong way is to take your in-house western animation, give it a fresh lick of paint and just tell people it's culturally indistinguishable from what those Japanese folk are doing.
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Re: A Netflix Original "Anime" Series.

Post by bumfrog »

Shingster wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:34 pm What is your point?
That I don't agree with you that what you think Netflix are doing is cultural appropriation.
Shingster wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:34 pm That I am culturally appropriating the term?
not you personally, but as you keep saying, in the west anime doesn't mean the same as it does in japan. Is that not a form of cultural appropriation? Taking a word from another culture and changing the meaning to suit the different culture? Did we as the west culturally appropriate the japanese word anime way back in the 80's/90's to suit our definition?
Shingster wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:34 pm It was the term introduced specifically for one purpose: distinguish between the Japanese product and the western home grown industry. That's the meaning of the term in OUR culture,
so hang on, now you are agreeing the west culturally appropriated the word?? :?:

Shingster wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:34 pm so when Netflix uses it they are specifically pointing out their product is the same thing as Japanese animation, when in the case of productions like Blood of Zeus that couldn't be further from the truth.
And on that particular point I'd agree, but at the same time have no issues with them categorising it as anime if it fit more in line with the japanese style animation as a way for me to easier differentiate.

Shingster wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:34 pmIf Anime simply means all animation as you claim, why does Netflix distinguish between original animation and original anime in the first place? In this case it would be because Netflix think that simply adopting a particular art style makes their product Anime, which is really insulting to the entire animation industry of Japan, that this absolutely massive and varied industry can be summed up by a singular art style.
The netflix site says under the anime heading "Action-packed adventures, offbeat comedies, inspirational stories -- these anime movies and TV shows have a style and spirit unlike anything else."

so to me that would say they aren't saying it's just about the visual style, but also the feel of them.

As for if it's insulting, if you can quote the japanese animation industry saying all this is insulting, I will join you actually. If this helps japanese anime and it's ilk become more popular, as as happened with hollywood, allows some of the japanese writers/producers/animators etc to pick up lucrative netflix contacts and give us more, that's a good thing isn't it?
Shingster wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:34 pmEDIT: If your point is simply "the meaning of the word Anime has changed" then please show me the evidence that the term Anime has shifted in meaning to simply "all animation" within our culture. My guess is that you're really going to struggle to find anyone outside of Netflix and mainstream journalists reporting on said Netflix shows referring to american product as Anime. If the meaning of the word has changed, why hasn't the wikipedia definition changed to fit?
but isn't this the crux. Netflix have started to use the term more loosely and it's very possible others will follow and it's meaning may change?
Shingster wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:34 pmOh and to your accusation of "gatekeeping". As I clearly stated in my original post I have no issue with Netflix claiming Anime on their productions that have some form of significant Japanese input (either the primary creative team or animated in Japan). My problem is with the productions that have absolutely zero input from Japan.

Like I say: The only reason we're having this debate is because Netflix saw how anime was finally now a mainstream force and they took the laziest option they could possibly do to cash in on that. Netflix as a company have absolutely no interest in changing the definition of words. This is not a pedantic argument about the evolution of the english language, Netflix are only interested in the term anime because of its association to the Japanese animated industry, which is very popular right now. That's what they are interested in, riding on the those coattails. The right way is to invest heavily within the Japanese animation industry or at least in Japanese talent and churn out high quality and authentic product, the wrong way is to take your in-house western animation, give it a fresh lick of paint and just tell people it's culturally indistinguishable from what those Japanese folk are doing.
But netflix have produced japanese created anime and continue to do so. Yes they maybe getting fast and lose with the definition, but until the japanese animation industry comes out and condemns the practice, or there is some kind of official protected definition, all I see is fanboys getting angry on behalf of somebody else - usual internet stuff.

I'm not saying what netflix are doing is right mind, as most if not all big companies do this type of thing, they really don't care - whatever brings the money in. Maybe you should be contacting them, I know they've backed down on calling some of the anime they bought netflix original anime.

But like I say, call me shallow, if it means more anime, regardless of where it's produced, I don't personally rightly care, plus all it does is increase the interest and popularity of the japanese stuff too.
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Re: A Netflix Original "Anime" Series.

Post by bumfrog »

i'll post this separate, makes it easier.

I've had a think and am starting to lean towards your thinking a bit more - re the cultural appropriation view. However I still maintain that we in the west culturally appropriated the word if that is the case.

I'm also torn about the cultural appreciation side of things too, as surely producing things in these styles can also be classed as appreciation?

Anyways, I'm thinking about it, but I would love to hear from the japanese industry and see what they think.
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Re: A Netflix Original "Anime" Series.

Post by oldskool »

I would class myself as a casual anime fan, certainly not hardcore in any way, shape or form but I've seen a fair bit.

I think in the west, to the majority of lay people, anime means "animation in the style of..." rather than "animation produced in Japan."

I am aware that anime in Japan is not a genre, but a medium but due to the anime that leaks into the west particularly in the early days and even now, a lot of the anime has a very similar style which is possibly why the term has been generalised as a style of animation.

I watched Castlevania and I wasn't even aware it wasn't a Japanese production because it had so many artistic beats that you see in Japanese anime.

I would be curious....if you showed Castlevania to some Japanese people without telling them anything about it's production, would they class it as anime or not??

A quick quote from Kotaku.com
Yet, within Japan, that distinction isn’t always made. For example, it’s not uncommon to see foreign animation also branded as “anime.” NHK refers to foreign animation like Curious George and Boss Baby as “anime,” along with homegrown shows. Sometimes a line is drawn, but not always. In Japan, the Cartoon Network does refer to the American cartoons as “overseas anime.”

Even Disney is not immune to the word. Disney usually refers to its films as “Disney works” (ディズニー作品 or “Dizunii sakuhin”), but many fans call Disney movies “Disney anime” (ディズニーアニメ), with the word “Disney” typically appearing in front.
So if the Japanese aren't bothered, why should we be?

In fact - the whole article is worth a read as it covers a lot of what's being discussed here: https://kotaku.com/what-anime-means-1689582070
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Re: A Netflix Original "Anime" Series.

Post by Shingster »

Oh don't get me wrong, I genuinly feel that the fact that western studios are producing anime style shows is definitely a good thing, something like Castlevania for instance where Americans have essentially created a property that the Japanese can enjoy that brings one of their classic video game franchises to life is pretty neat (although I'm not sure how popular these Netflix original shows actually are in Japan, read a recent article that revealed that Netflix isn't all that popular over there as an anime platform still). Netflix calling it anime though? I'm torn about that one, but like I saaid earlier in the thread about Castlevania: at least it's based on a classic Japanese franchise, you know?

I suppose you could make an argument that we culturally appropriated the term Anime to begin with, but then of course the word was derived from the English animation so I suppose you could argue that we just took it back if you wanted to go into it more deeply! Cultural appropriation to me is typically a good thing because typically it's something that happens organically, if western animation fans had started to shift towards adapting the word anime to mean anything that is Japanese in style and it just snowballed in popular usage until Netflix jumped on the wagon then fine, but when Netflix are the ones pushing the change just to sell their own product, that to me is bad cultural appropriation, because the motivations are lazy and cynical, and it stems from that ignorant viewpoint that mainstream Americans (especially, but also Brits) have that anime is simply a genre and therefore it can easily be cloned. On the other hand Netflix have done a tremendous job of raising the profile of Anime here in the west and can claim some of the credit for how mainstream the medium has become, so I am torn.

I'm scratching my head trying to remember exactly how the term got established here in the west to specifically refer to Japanese animation and I can't think of any persistent and common usage earlier than when the label Manga established the new wave of anime imports in the early 90s with the likes of Akira, Fist of the North Star, etc, and they adopted the term to differentiate the animation they were importing from the home grown products. I remember the little video tutorials explaining anime and manga (and to this day Americans mispronounce the word Manga as "monga" because of these tutorials! :D), so you could also argue that the definition of the term Anime was originally pushed on us by a distributor trying to make cash as well, but that's something that the fans did embrace and take and make their own, so time will tell if people will continue to use the term Anime in the original Japanese sense of simply meaning any form of animation. It might be inevitable, but if they do then all that will do is strip the term of all meaning here in the west IMO because we have perfectly good words to describe all forms of animation already. Being able to distinguish between the various industries is ultimately a good thing IMO and one worth holding on to for as long as possible, but yeah, cultural appropriation of Anime is probably inevtiable because that's what we as a society do when something becomes mainstream: The casual fans adopt it as their own and assimilate it into the zeitgeist in the most superficial way possible.
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Re: A Netflix Original "Anime" Series.

Post by oldskool »

I'm curious then on your standing on this.

A lot of western animation productions are produced by animation studios in Japan (I'm not talking about Japanese productions that were reworked for a western audience audience such as Battle of the Planets/G-Force/Gatchaman)

But if you take for example....Thundercats, an american franchise but animated in Japan by the studio that would eventually turn into Studio Ghibli...is that anime?

What about all the Toei animation stuff from the 80s that was originally produced for a western audience in Japan....is that anime? Things like Dungeons and Dragons, GI Joe, The Jetsons, Inspector Gadget, Jet The Real Ghostbusters, TMNT, Defenders of the Earth, Transformers etc...

If the defining quality of being anime is being produced in Japan...do these qualify as they were indeed created in Japan.
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Re: A Netflix Original "Anime" Series.

Post by Shingster »

Sorry forgot to reply to this!

I personally would not classify any of the shows in your example as Anime, just because a Japanese animation studio handled the animation doesn't mean that the show in question has a specifically Japanese "voice" creatively speaking, and if we're not using the term anime to make that distinction then what's the point in using the term? I do concede though that you can at the very least make the argument that simply hiring a Japanese animation house is enough for any animation to be classified as anime.

A good analogy of my point is the film Aliens: It's an American film that was almost entirely made in England by a predominantly British crew, but nobody in the West would call it a British film. Also bear in mind that a large portion if not most anime itself these days is outsourced to animation houses in other South East Asian territories, so if we go down that rabbit hole anime itself isn't even anime! :suspect: :D

I stand fully by my statement in the original post:
Anime is NOT a genre, it is an industry, and you cannot make an Anime series unless you make it in Japan and/or with a predominantly Japanese creative team. Period.[/url]
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Re: A Netflix Original "Anime" Series.

Post by bumfrog »

Shingster wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 5:57 am Sorry forgot to reply to this!

I personally would not classify any of the shows in your example as Anime, just because a Japanese animation studio handled the animation doesn't mean that the show in question has a specifically Japanese "voice" creatively speaking, and if we're not using the term anime to make that distinction then what's the point in using the term? I do concede though that you can at the very least make the argument that simply hiring a Japanese animation house is enough for any animation to be classified as anime.

A good analogy of my point is the film Aliens: It's an American film that was almost entirely made in England by a predominantly British crew, but nobody in the West would call it a British film. Also bear in mind that a large portion if not most anime itself these days is outsourced to animation houses in other South East Asian territories, so if we go down that rabbit hole anime itself isn't even anime! :suspect: :D

I stand fully by my statement in the original post:
Anime is NOT a genre, it is an industry, and you cannot make an Anime series unless you make it in Japan and/or with a predominantly Japanese creative team. Period.[/url]
are you aware that your post above contradicts your original statement?

you can't literally say "Anime is NOT a genre, it is an industry, and you cannot make an Anime series unless you make it in Japan.." and then dismiss anime that is made in the japanese industry as not anime, but not dismiss anime that is not made in japan, it really doesn't track, sorry! You can't have it both ways :p
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Re: A Netflix Original "Anime" Series.

Post by Shingster »

How am I contradicting myself? I literally re-stated one of my very first comments in this thread!
You cannot make an Anime series unless you make it in Japan AND/OR with a predominantly Japanese creative team
I've highlighted the crucial points for emphasis, the creative team is the crucial part and allows for Anime that is animated outside of Japan (like a good chunk of Anime currently is). I am also accepting that you can at least make the argument that something simply animated in Japan is anime, but IMO that is a very spurious, pedantic, argument. The Japanese staff that worked on shows like Thundercats were not part of the creative team, they just handled the nuts and bolts of animation. AFAIAA they have absolutely ZERO authorship of the product.

Like I say: there is no contradiction. Do you consider Aliens to be an English film, yes or no? The examples in Oldskools posts happen to be American/French/Canadian animated series where the drawing was done in Japan, they are NOT Japanese productions, and if you or oldskool are seriously arguing that they are then show me ONE place online that states they are Japanese, because if you look every single one of these shows up on Wikipedia or IMDB or any other technical database I know exactly what you're going to read about their "country of origin".
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Re: A Netflix Original "Anime" Series.

Post by bumfrog »

Shingster wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 1:30 pm How am I contradicting myself? I literally re-stated one of my very first comments in this thread!
You cannot make an Anime series unless you make it in Japan AND/OR with a predominantly Japanese creative team
I've highlighted the crucial points for emphasis, the creative team is the crucial part and allows for Anime that is animated outside of Japan (like a good chunk of Anime currently is). I am also accepting that you can at least make the argument that something simply animated in Japan is anime, but IMO that is a very spurious, pedantic, argument.
but the whole point of this discussion is pretty much based around *your* pedantic definition of anime. ;) doesn't really work when you try and say somebody is being pedantic to dismiss their point, when your whole point, imho of course, is pedantry ;)
Shingster wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 1:30 pmThe Japanese staff that worked on shows like Thundercats were not part of the creative team, they just handled the nuts and bolts of animation. AFAIAA they have absolutely ZERO authorship of the product.

Like I say: there is no contradiction. Do you consider Aliens to be an English film, yes or no? The examples in Oldskools posts happen to be American/French/Canadian animated series where the drawing was done in Japan, they are NOT Japanese productions, and if you or oldskool are seriously arguing that they are then show me ONE place online that states they are Japanese, because if you look every single one of these shows up on Wikipedia or IMDB or any other technical database I know exactly what you're going to read about their "country of origin".
trying to bring if Aliens is english in to the discussion is a straw man and not comparable sorry.

We're not saying those other shows are "Anime" we're just to trying to establish what is Anime under your definition as the goalposts seem to be moving somewhat and after all the whole thread is about what you seem to consider anime...

if you want though, I can point to an internet poll that does say that anime can be non japanese ;)

https://www.fandom.com/articles/anime-japanese-poll

That's the crux here. Like a lot of things on the internet, people take things as gospel, when there is no gospel, then get annoyed when other people don't adhere to their definition.

I think for the time being I'll stick with the japanese definition as I can't speak for them or their industry. If they do want to come out and own and protect the term, that's something I can totally get behind, but until that point...

edit - just to add, I think one of things here is that I've always referred to anime in the japanese term ever since I first saw castle of cagliostro way back in the 80's, ever since I learned the difference between manga (the comic) and anime (the animation)
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Re: A Netflix Original "Anime" Series.

Post by Shingster »

No point arguing this any further, we will never see eye-to-eye on this topic, I'll just leave this quote from the very article you posted, which proves the entire point of why I started this perfectly, before you distilled the argument into an extremely pedantic definition of the what the term "anime" means:
So is that it — is anime only defined as being animation from Japan? Maybe. Because the discussion surrounding cultural appropriation is so prevalent in our current racial climate, we know we must borrow from other cultures with utmost respect. Creating anime-inspired content should be an homage, not a cash grab.
And if you think Netflix are not defining shows as Anime as a cash grab, then you are completely deluding yourself!

Oh and one last thing, the reason I defined anime in my original post was precisely because I wanted to maintain that anime doesn't have to be produced in Japan to be called Anime. It just needs a significant Japanese voice of some sort behind it, Netflix and other american distributors have produced shows with all Japanese talent and marketed them am as Anime. But whatever, I'm moving the goalposts! my Aliens analogy stands and you're just calling it a strawman to sidestep the point Aliens is an American production that was filmed in england using an almost entirely english workforce, just as shows like Thundercats and Real Ghostbusters are an american production filmed in Japan using an almost entirely Japanese workforce. I really don't see what one being animated and one being live action really matters in terms of the argument.

Can I ask one last question before we wrap this up. Have you actually watched any of these recent Netflix "original anime" shows and ergo, perhaps, have any inkling as to why I might be unsettled by their use of the term to market said shows?
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Re: A Netflix Original "Anime" Series.

Post by Shingster »

BTW bumfrog now that you've firmly established that Anime has never been used to describe specifically Japanese animation within the English language (afterall, ALL words derived from foreign words maintain the original meaning in their foreign language when assimilated into English) then I hope you'll be contacting established database sites like BoxOfficeMojo and Wikipedia (and I could list about a hundred more articles and databases like this) that Anime such as The Lion King, Frozen, Frozen II, Despicable Me,The Incredibles 2) are by far the highest grossing Anime films out there!

Perhaps someone should get in touch with the marketing department of Disney and tell them that Raya and the Last Dragon might have sold more had they marketed it as an Anime, and certainly their recent live action Mulan might have found more of its niche marketed as an Anime Adaptation.
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Re: A Netflix Original "Anime" Series.

Post by bumfrog »

Shingster wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 9:34 pm BTW bumfrog now that you've firmly established that Anime has never been used to describe specifically Japanese animation within the English language (afterall, ALL words derived from foreign words maintain the original meaning in their foreign language when assimilated into English) then I hope you'll be contacting established database sites like BoxOfficeMojo and Wikipedia (and I could list about a hundred more articles and databases like this) that Anime such as The Lion King, Frozen, Frozen II, Despicable Me,The Incredibles 2) are by far the highest grossing Anime films out there!

Perhaps someone should get in touch with the marketing department of Disney and tell them that Raya and the Last Dragon might have sold more had they marketed it as an Anime, and certainly their recent live action Mulan might have found more of its niche marketed as an Anime Adaptation.
:lol: You are aware this just makes you sound like a gatekeeping fanboi now? And I never said "afterall, ALL words derived from foreign words maintain the original meaning in their foreign language when assimilated into English"... I questioned if what the west did with the word anime was cultural appropriation or not? So please don't make things up I've not said. It's very disingenuous.

Like I said, if the people you are so keen on protecting (the japanese Anime creators) want to come out and condemn what netflix et al are doing, I'm fully behind them, but as they are not, it really is a case of internet keyboard warriors getting offended on behalf of people imho.

Let me ask you, what was the point in the thread if you don't care about anybody else's pov and want to shove your definition of anime down people's throats?
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Re: A Netflix Original "Anime" Series.

Post by Shingster »

Yeah when you resort to personal insults bumfrog you've lost the argument! :lol:

You're the one who made a big deal about the definition of anime, not me, by calling me a "gatekeeper" and accusing me of cultural appropriation, so I was just defending my original definition of the term, but now that you've made things personal I've got absolutely no interest in wasting a millisecond on pointless bickering.
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