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Old 11-11-2005, 17:58   #21
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De Palma?Boorman?Scott?
But no Whale,Losey,Anderson,Loach....this "3 films and you're in" rule (very American!) doesn't really work does it....from a 1,000 greatest films list that includes AI and Jurassic Park!

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Old 11-11-2005, 18:44   #22
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Spielberg should be a lot higher than no.35 imo
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Old 11-11-2005, 21:08   #23
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Having John Boorman ranking in the Top 100 (and I'd place him a helluva lot higher than 89) is funny how exactly? He made, y'know, a few iconoclastic films, including one of the most perfect (tautology intended) films of the '70s, nothing more.
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Old 11-11-2005, 22:54   #24
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Deliverance is a great film as is Point Blank,but is Boorman one of the top 100 film makers of all time?I think for Ridley Scott and Brian de Palma to be rubbing shoulders with Kenji Mizoguchi is taking the **** though.Fassbinders many films are distinctive for being amateurish and crude,as are Pasolini's,but they'll always appear in lists because the directors themselves are deemed important socio-politically,which begs the question-why no Derek Jarman?These lists always seem to be trying to please everyone,which is dishonest and lazy.They also change as directors go out of favour (fashion) with the critics.Then there are the directors who never go out of fashion because critics are afraid to question their supposed greatness-Hitchcock and Welles being two of the untouchables.

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Old 12-11-2005, 00:44   #25
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*Sniffle* No love for Howard Hawks = another list disregarded.
Ha ha, not really, well not entirely but how easy it would be for me to do so. Maybe because I'm right and the list is wrong so I have no reason to listen, or maybe I can't take the blow that the director I consider to be the best actually isn't and I'm just plain wrong.
Does it actually matter? Does anybody know the answer? Does it mean that..... *Ramble, ramble, ramble*
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Old 12-11-2005, 02:21   #26
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Hawks belongs on a list of "great" film makers because he had an original voice,whereas the likes of De Palma and Coppola are imitators,they don't aspire to greatness because they're in thrall to their film school heroes so they just copy and reduce what went before them,their films entertain audiences unfamiliar with Antonioni and Bertolucci.The problem with lists is that by definition they need to be definitive!My advice would be-rip up the list,clear your mind,watch whatever you want and trust your own judgment...what constitutes greatness anyway?
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Old 12-11-2005, 02:34   #27
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What a pile of festering vegetation mixed with a dose of animal droppings !!!

Capra 43
Speilberg 35
Lean 24


While

Renoir 6
Bunuel 11
Mizoguchi 16


Someones havin a laugh.


Sure Welles is top 10 for impact alone but a better Director than Hitch, Ford or Scorsese.



May as well say Westlife are more successful than the Beatles, think of all those airtime hits that Westlife get and the Beatles never managed one legal download vote.



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Old 12-11-2005, 03:21   #28
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There's an episode of Auf W.P. (1st series) where Barry holds a vote to decide what colour to paint the hut,theycan't agree on a colour scheme so they have a ballot where each person casts 2 votes-one for their first choice colour of paint,the other vote for their second choice.The winning colour was yellow which nobody voted as first choice but it got most second votes so it won....to which Dennis remarks "so everyone gets what nobody wants",Barry's reply is "that's democracy Dennis"....this film list is "democratic"....Given the choice would you rather watch "Le Regle De Jeu" or "Oooh You Are Awful!" ?

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Old 12-11-2005, 10:13   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smiler
Sure Welles is top 10 for impact alone but a better Director than Hitch, Ford...
Tell me why you think that? I'm not being combative, and I readily accept that 'x' is better than 'y' is usually a nonsense. I'll argue with anyone that Welles was indeed a genius, but I find it irritating in the extreme that just because they had long and successful careers, they both produced a string of entertaining films in Hollywood, it's relatively easy to dismiss Hitchcock, and particularly Ford.

The reason that both spanned the chasm between silent films, the sound era and into the cauldron of the '60s/70s is because of their genius. It's no accident that Welles worshipped at the feet of Ford, but this 'director of westerns' as he is oft dismissed as - and indeed, dismissed himself - produced films of great subtlety, craft and a burning intelligence. That's not to say that both have a fair few turkeys in their CVs...but what CVs. It's not the sheer volume, it's the stunning quality of work over decades.

Welles had a fantastic eye - his theatrical productions were alledgedly stunning - he always surrounded himself with the best talent (which is sound advice for anyone in any field of business), he was a quick study, and even when he struggled for backing (Chimes at Midnight, Macbeth, for instance) he was capable of coming up with the goods, but how irritating must it have been for Carol Reed, for instance, to have much of the success of The Third Man deflected the way of the 'Wunderkind'? In many ways, you could argue that David Lean's early films - particularly Great Expectations - had just as much craft, inventiveness and impact on film makers as most of Welles output. I do, BTW, find him immensely charming and utterly fascinating, as will many future generations of film fans.

Quote:
Originally Posted by derek cassidy
Given the choice would you rather watch "Le Regle De Jeu" or "Oooh You Are Awful!" ?
Depends on my mood...

I must say, Spielberg has little to say to me these days, but I can't dismiss the man who made Jaws or CE3K. Whether he will be ultimately be judged as a great depends on whether he has any more like that in him, and personally, I doubt it. Maybe the same applies to the man who made The Duellists and Alien. Can we dismiss, say, Lubitsch, because his mainstay were films that were simply fabulously entertaining?

I wish one of our absent friends were here to defend De Palma BTW
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Old 12-11-2005, 11:19   #30
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Like any list it's all subjective; personally I'd put Peckinpah, Leone, Cronenberg, Lynch & Huston much higher, whilst Spielberg and DePalma wouldn't be in there at all. And (great film maker though he undoubtedly was) if Welles can get the top spot on one movie alone, why doesn't Tobe Hooper feature anywhere in the list?

Seriously though, I do think Clint Eastwood is a major oversight; although his career has been uneven, it's high points have produced some of the cinematic greats of the last 30 years, my DVD collection would be very incomplete without 'Josey Wales, Unforgivern, Mystic River or Million Dollar Baby. Still I suppose there is some comfort to be had from the absence of Tarantino or Lucas......

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Old 12-11-2005, 11:21   #31
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De Palma needs no defense from those 'in the know'. It really is a pointless endeavour anyway, right?
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Old 12-11-2005, 11:25   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Hodson
I wish one of our absent friends were here to defend De Palma BTW
I think Carrie, Dressed to Kill, Blow Out and Carlito's Way are genuine masterpieces of modern cinema and I've found something to enjoy in nearly all of De Palma's films. He divides opinions more than most, but I now find myself revisiting his films more often than those of the more "reputable" 70's movie brats.

Recently I got a lot more joy out of a playful exercise in pure cinema like Femme Fatale than from Oscar chasing Scorsese clunkers like The Aviator or Gangs of New York.

Last edited by Reno; 12-11-2005 at 11:41.
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Old 12-11-2005, 11:33   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StevenMTaylor
my DVD collection would be very incomplete without 'Josey Wales, Unforgivern, Mystic River or Million Dollar Baby. Still I suppose there is some comfort to be had from the absence of Tarantino or Lucas......
As would my collection without Phantom of the Paradise, Carrie, Blow Out or Scarface I see what you mean about that ol' subjectivity thang.
Good point about Lucas and Tarantino. If this list were by empire magazine for example, both would take the slots of Goddard and Coppola and simmering just below the top ten would be Christopher Nolan or somebody Oh well....
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Old 12-11-2005, 11:47   #34
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Originally Posted by earl_roberts2002
As would my collection without Phantom of the Paradise, Carrie, Blow Out or Scarface I see what you mean about that ol' subjectivity thang.
I've nothing against DePalma (I own all of the above films except for Phantom), it's just I've yet to see him produce films of the same stature as Vertigo, Chinatown or The Wild Bunch.
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Old 12-11-2005, 13:12   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StevenMTaylor
I've nothing against DePalma (I own all of the above films except for Phantom), it's just I've yet to see him produce films of the same stature as Vertigo, Chinatown or The Wild Bunch.
I'd say that most of the 100 directors listed haven't directed a film that ends up in most polls of the 10 best films of all time.

In Carrie De Plama has made at least one truly iconic film of the 70's, with Blow Out he's made one of the best of the 80's and there are a few others that I think are brilliant or underrated.

Last edited by Reno; 12-11-2005 at 14:14.
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Old 12-11-2005, 13:35   #36
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Originally Posted by DrZarkov
Spielberg should be a lot higher than no.35 imo
If Empire had been involved in the voting he would have been.

For a horrible minute I thought he'd be number one, but then I saw who had voted.

To be honest I cant pick fault with that top 10 at all.
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Old 12-11-2005, 15:29   #37
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Is De Palma in the top 100 film makers of all time?...that's the argument.He wouldn't even put himself there!His style is deliberately imitative.The films are tongue in cheek.
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Old 12-11-2005, 15:39   #38
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What's tongue-in-cheek about the end of Blow Out?
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Old 12-11-2005, 17:43   #39
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Maybe it's a very dark tongue in a black cheek.I appreciate what he does but I can't take his very deliberate references to Hitchcock,Antonioni and others very seriously and I don't think we're supposed to.I think alot of film makers are having a joke at the audience's expense,they play with the form,Dressed to Kill being the most obvious example.Phantom of the Paradise was obviously comic,but I think that cynical contempt for the viewer that Hitchcock employed is at the heart of all De Palma's films.I think J.P.Melville does a similar thing in his later films-I think Un Flic is a very black joke at the expense of his other crime films and the noir genre,maybe I'm wrong but it seems that many film makers set out to play an elaborate joke on the viewer,a contempt for humankind in general...Hitchcock was a master at belittling an audience,most of his films are black comedies,even "The Wrong Man"..maybe it's just my warped mind.

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Old 12-11-2005, 18:30   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sleep4ever
To be honest I cant pick fault with that top 10 at all.
If either Bergman or Kubrick were replaced with Hawks who I personally think made more worthy yet entertaining (is that now considered a flaw? do those two even go together?) films than anyone then I'd agree. It's a pretty solid list respective of a lot of tastes and genre's even and I'm sure a few goes through the randomizer machine would be enough to come up with a top 10 order to please most.

Except those who hate Coppola.......

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