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Old 26-10-2006, 17:25   #1
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Video about BluRay and HD-DVD

Idiots guide, but still interesting (I thought)

http://blue.imation.com/intotheblue/

Something they said made me think. (and I don't do that very often if I can help it!)

Do Blu-Ray AND HD-DVD BOTH use Blue lasers (as that video clip implies?)
for some reason I thought it was only BluRay that used a Blue laser?

Perhaps "Blue-HD-DVD" would be a nice title to get up Sony's nose
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Old 26-10-2006, 17:38   #2
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Neither have a blue laser.

They both use blue-violet lasers operating at a wavelength of 405nm.

The main difference between bluray and hddvd are the discs. With Bluray the laser is more tightly focused 0.1mm below the surface of the disc which allows for greater data density but was more open to damage (thats why they are using the hard coating to protect the discs). With HD-DVD the laser is focused 0.6mm below the surface of the disc (same as dvd).

Last edited by Chris; 26-10-2006 at 17:43.
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Old 26-10-2006, 18:07   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris
Neither have a blue laser.

They both use blue-violet lasers operating at a wavelength of 405nm.

The main difference between bluray and hddvd are the discs. With Bluray the laser is more tightly focused 0.1mm below the surface of the disc which allows for greater data density but was more open to damage (thats why they are using the hard coating to protect the discs). With HD-DVD the laser is focused 0.6mm below the surface of the disc (same as dvd).
Cheers for clearing this up.
I do wish the discs were inside a cartridge (Like a BIG 3.5" floppy disk housing)
I always thought it would be nice if these things were in protective things, then just have a slot in the player to poke em in.
Never get any scratches on them, but the makers never seem keen as I guess it's a few pence cheaper, and easier to make em bare naked!
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Old 26-10-2006, 18:26   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempest
Cheers for clearing this up.
I do wish the discs were inside a cartridge (Like a BIG 3.5" floppy disk housing)
I always thought it would be nice if these things were in protective things, then just have a slot in the player to poke em in.
Never get any scratches on them, but the makers never seem keen as I guess it's a few pence cheaper, and easier to make em bare naked!
Bluray discs already cost more to produce than hddvds, if they had kept the caddy for bluray they would have cost even more to produce, store and ship. Thats why they came up with the hard coating, without it the discs wouldn't last long as the protective layer of bluray is 0.5mm thinner than dvd or hddvd.

Last edited by Chris; 26-10-2006 at 18:27.
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Old 26-10-2006, 19:03   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris
Bluray discs already cost more to produce than hddvds, if they had kept the caddy for bluray they would have cost even more to produce, store and ship. Thats why they came up with the hard coating, without it the discs wouldn't last long as the protective layer of bluray is 0.5mm thinner than dvd or hddvd.
I do actually think the cost of caddy is really a bit of marketing bumph.

A Caddy (mass production) would add pence to any disk.

Consider you can now buy Fifty 3.5" floppy disks (In caddys) for Ł15.

I don't really buy into the "Caddy will pump the price up" argument.
In mass production it would be un-noticable.

Just my opinion. Other may hate caddys.
I just think would be nice to have a Disc that's 100% protected, and have a nice area on the caddy face to put posh labels on etc.

Guess will have to wait till be get solid state movie storage, as that WILL by it's very nature, be in a caddy.

======= EDIT ========

I would agree with you, that it's due to factors of distribution and storage that makes bare discs much easier (cheaper)

Last edited by Tempest; 26-10-2006 at 19:52.
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Old 26-10-2006, 21:30   #6
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All discs come in a caddy. You just have to take it out to use it (and make sure you dont abuse it)
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Old 28-10-2006, 10:59   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempest
Just my opinion. Other may hate caddys.
I just think would be nice to have a Disc that's 100% protected, and have a nice area on the caddy face to put posh labels on etc.
In some ways there is this, Sony XDCAM, blue lazer proffesional camcorder format. Proffessionals are willing to pay that bit extra.

From sonybiz.net
"What is the relationship between Professional Disc and the consumer Blu-Ray format?
Both record and play video on 12 cm optical discs with blue lasers. Track pitch and recording density are the same. Otherwise the two formats are very different. Blu-ray writing speed is 36Mbps (insufficient for 50Mbps MPEG IMX), while Professional Disc’s writing speed is 72Mbps. A different chemical structure is a key element in enabling this higher write speed. Professional Disc also supports professional formats (MPEG IMX, DVCAM) rather than a consumer-oriented format. The disc casing is also different, with Professional Disc having a double-window design for double-head operations and also increased protection against dust, scratches etc."

IMHO the extra "pence" you talk about adding to the cost of a disc, would probably be trippling the manufacturing cost compared to Blu-ray. Lets guess a 5p for a basic disc, and 15p for one in a caddy (when mass producing).
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Old 28-10-2006, 11:16   #8
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I think the main reason that caddy discs have not been introduced is because people still want SD-DVD support on HD players.

You also have to remember that it is not merely the cost of the disc/caddy - the companies would have to completely redesign the players, the packaging and subsequently the storage - all of which could cost extra to develop - if the firms had needed to completely redesign the players, the cost would likely be double what it already is.

Ultimately, as Spooksta puts it so well, discs are already protected most of the time - I have over 400 DVDs and not one of them has a scratch on it.
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Old 05-11-2006, 17:57   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R-T-C
I think the main reason that caddy discs have not been introduced is because people still want SD-DVD support on HD players.

You also have to remember that it is not merely the cost of the disc/caddy - the companies would have to completely redesign the players, the packaging and subsequently the storage - all of which could cost extra to develop - if the firms had needed to completely redesign the players, the cost would likely be double what it already is.

Ultimately, as Spooksta puts it so well, discs are already protected most of the time - I have over 400 DVDs and not one of them has a scratch on it.
Errr, but they don't have to redesign the players are they are NEW players.
They are making them from scratch (no pun intended) anyway.

Indeed, YOU don't have any scratches on your movie and game DVD's, but have you ever seem how kids treat them?

I've seem loads of discs just chucked about on the floor, on table tops, not put back in their cases.

For Video Cassettes it did not matter, as they WERE in protective hard plastic cases, but CD's, DVD's and now HD-DVD's, they are made with no protection at all.

We all know it's just for financial reasons, If they can save 5p per Ł15 disc then they will.
Price drives everything I'm afraid
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Old 05-11-2006, 21:16   #10
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I remember that the firs CDRom drives used caddies. It's sort of like natural selection for discs - if the only way people learn to treat discs carefully is by having to rebuy stuff they scratch then so be it.
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Old 06-11-2006, 19:46   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempest
Errr, but they don't have to redesign the players are they are NEW players.
They are making them from scratch (no pun intended) anyway.
They are new players software-wise, but the actual mechanics of the player will be the same (ie. the CD-tray is still there), with a disc-caddy they would have to design a whole new physical player.
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