Go Back   Forums @ The Digital Fix > Entertainment Discussion Forums > DVD and Blu-ray Discussion

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-07-2006, 17:01   #81
Tempest
Trusted User
 
Tempest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Horley (Gatwick)
Posts: 26,521
Thanks: 919
Thanked 737 Times in 449 Posts
Would I be right in thinking the cheapest way of getting a HD-DVD player is going to be when Microsoft launch it for the Xbox360?

Going to be £130 (ish) isn't it?

Assuming you already have a 360 that it.

Going to make the current prices of HD-DVD Players look a bit silly within the next 5 months.
Tempest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2006, 18:11   #82
Spectre07
Trusted User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: None Bothered
Posts: 5,806
Thanks: 6
Thanked 18 Times in 7 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkman
So you're saying that if any given movie fan were offered a state-of-the-art HD set-up that they would decline in favour of their current inferior equipment?
I know people who would be happy to continue using a bus even if they were giving away Rolls Royces.
Spectre07 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2006, 18:13   #83
Spectre07
Trusted User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: None Bothered
Posts: 5,806
Thanks: 6
Thanked 18 Times in 7 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Mackenzie
Apples and oranges. I think the "record vs. CD" argument has parallels with the "film vs. digital" argument, but not when it comes to low resolution DVD vs. high resolution DVD. I think a more appropriate parallel would be to compare listening to a low quality RealAudio download of a song vs. listening to the full CD quality version (or, to be fair, a high bit rate MP3/WMA/ATRAC).
An appropriate analogy would be CD vs SACD.
Spectre07 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2006, 18:16   #84
Spectre07
Trusted User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: None Bothered
Posts: 5,806
Thanks: 6
Thanked 18 Times in 7 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandmaster
Because the size of the display and the distance you sit away from it have a massive impact on the amount of actual resolution the human eye can detect. Not everyone has the space or the inclination or the indeed the money to splash out on a huge screen. Does that make them unable to be a movie lover?

DVD *did* sort out a lot of the problems of VHS - proper anamorphic support for widescreen TVs, totally stable digital image, digital mapping to get the most out of the available resolution on a standard definition screen. I'd say it's a perfectly viable playback medium for most people's lifestyles.
And lets not forget the most important thing... having to remember to press the rewind button once you finished watching a film.
Spectre07 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2006, 18:17   #85
Guest 9011
Trusted User
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 4,036
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spectre07
An appropriate analogy would be CD vs SACD.
Not really. The difference between DVD and HD-DVD is much more immediately noticeable, especially to the non-technogeek.
Guest 9011 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2006, 18:19   #86
Spectre07
Trusted User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: None Bothered
Posts: 5,806
Thanks: 6
Thanked 18 Times in 7 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by thescrounger
No, but your not seeing the point, that objectively as a format the leap is not the same. They are both disc formats, both offer a level of interactivety that VHS did not. The fact the HD-DVD has vastly better image quality does not mean that the leap from DVD to HD-DVD is the same. Yes in terms of image quality but not in terms of a format objectively. Do you get me? If anything the leap is smaller. It's a less painful upgrade, than the 'leap' to a brand new format that VHS was.
Also you didn't have to chuck out your exisiting TV and buy a 'DVD ready' TV to truely appreciate the difference between DVD and VHS.
Spectre07 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2006, 18:24   #87
Spectre07
Trusted User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: None Bothered
Posts: 5,806
Thanks: 6
Thanked 18 Times in 7 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Mackenzie
Not really. The difference between DVD and HD-DVD is much more immediately noticeable, especially to the non-technogeek.
When I first heard an album on SACD I noticed the diiference between the recording and it's CD counterpart. Didn't make me want to rush out and buy a SACD capable CD player.
Spectre07 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2006, 18:28   #88
Guest 9011
Trusted User
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 4,036
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spectre07
When I first heard an album on SACD I noticed the diiference between the recording and it's CD counterpart. Didn't make me want to rush out and buy a SACD capable CD player.
To tell you the truth, I'm not entirely sure what your point is. You noticed the difference between SACD and CD and it didn't make you rush out to buy a SACD player - fair enough. I noticed the difference between HD and standard definition and it did make me want to rush out and buy an HD player.
Guest 9011 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2006, 19:20   #89
AndyWilson
--------old-geek
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 11,610
Thanks: 73
Thanked 179 Times in 118 Posts
Posters here aren't the General Public though - Michael in particular, judging by his DVD Times reviews, is extremely fussy about video quality. Most people would consider the Finding Nemo DVD to have an amazing picture. Michael described it as something like an artefact ridden mess. Personally, the fact I didn't notice those artefacts until they were pointed out and I looked for them makes me think HD-DVD might well be wasted on me...
AndyWilson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2006, 19:33   #90
Spectre07
Trusted User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: None Bothered
Posts: 5,806
Thanks: 6
Thanked 18 Times in 7 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Mackenzie
To tell you the truth, I'm not entirely sure what your point is. You noticed the difference between SACD and CD and it didn't make you rush out to buy a SACD player - fair enough. I noticed the difference between HD and standard definition and it did make me want to rush out and buy an HD player.
The point is, although the SACD demo sounded better, I was happy with my existing CD collection and set up. I certainly chucked out my cassette deck and bought a CD player once I could afford to but SACD didn't have that draw. I feel the same way about HD-DVD etc. I don't feel the need to update any time soon if at all.
Spectre07 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2006, 20:18   #91
Tempest
Trusted User
 
Tempest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Horley (Gatwick)
Posts: 26,521
Thanks: 919
Thanked 737 Times in 449 Posts
Whilst I have said many many times how much I want HD Movies.

The sad fact remains that there are millions of people who have in past years gone out and bought Argos, Sainsburys, Woolworths, Asda etc, dirt cheap and nasty silver TV/DVD Combo CRT sets and DVd players on silver stands for prices such as £299 and £399 just cos they wanted a nice big cheap TV.

All they, and millions want is a nice big picture, they don't care about quality as to them it's just a TV to watch East Enders, a few Nature progs on, and the odd DVD.

They have a busy life and go out and do things with friends and family all the time (no insult meant to anyone here!) and to them, it's ONLY a TV.

I could be sexist and say that it's probably women who would say, jees it's only a TV, what's wrong with the one we have it's fine.

These I feel are the Masses, and they are still a long way from their Flat TV's at the moment.

It's the £99 type price point I think we'd have to break before they'd even remotly consider a HD player, and poss even the £49 we'd have to break.

When I bought my 1st DVD player for £99, I was only 1 of a tiny few people at work (average types - mostly men) who had a DVD player.

I'm hoping the makers will get a nasty shock when they realise they're not going to sell many at current prices.

Current Prices (£30) are amazing for a DVD player, and it's hard to bring someine in at 20 times the price which is a just a bit better (to most people on normal sets)

As I said however, I want one for a projector screen, but I'm not gonna be stung this time around.
Tempest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2006, 20:52   #92
Guest 20396
T.H.F.C.
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Higham Ferrers
Posts: 2,482
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Just doing my 1st firmware upgrade on my XA-1 Toshiba now,doing it over the internet.Not for the faint hearted as i know nothing about this sort of thing
Guest 20396 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2006, 21:04   #93
Guest 9011
Trusted User
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 4,036
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyWilson
Posters here aren't the General Public though - Michael in particular, judging by his DVD Times reviews, is extremely fussy about video quality. Most people would consider the Finding Nemo DVD to have an amazing picture. Michael described it as something like an artefact ridden mess. Personally, the fact I didn't notice those artefacts until they were pointed out and I looked for them makes me think HD-DVD might well be wasted on me...
On the other hand, if someone as anal as me is singing HD-DVD's praises, then it must be really good.

I guess we must just agree to disagree.
Guest 9011 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2006, 22:34   #94
Tempest
Trusted User
 
Tempest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Horley (Gatwick)
Posts: 26,521
Thanks: 919
Thanked 737 Times in 449 Posts
Must admit, I didn't have any issues with Finding Nemo, mind you, I have not watched it on my new LCD TV, so perhaps that will show up more faults.

I look foward to seeing for myself the same film in "Normal" and "HD DVD" formats.

I've got no doubt, I'll enjoy the extra quality.

I do doubt a bit that (from normal across the room viewing distance) it will be THAT noticable, however (as I've said a number of times) I'm certain that when I EVENTUALLY get a new HD Cinema projector and watch the same movie on a 7ft wise screen the differerence is really going to blow me away and I look forward to this.

All I need is a HD-DVD (or bluRay) player for my PC and perhaps the graphics card with HDMI which I believe you will need.

Unless VGA or DVI will be able to feed HD to a projector.
Tempest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2006, 23:44   #95
Boink!
Politics, eh?
 
Boink!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Part of Europe
Posts: 23,488
Thanks: 1,239
Thanked 3,355 Times in 1,118 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempest
The sad fact remains that there are millions of people who have in past years gone out and bought Argos, Sainsburys, Woolworths, Asda etc, dirt cheap and nasty silver TV/DVD Combo CRT sets and DVd players on silver stands for prices such as £299 and £399 just cos they wanted a nice big cheap TV.
All they, and millions want is a nice big picture, they don't care about quality as to them it's just a TV to watch East Enders, a few Nature progs on, and the odd DVD.
They have a busy life and go out and do things with friends and family all the time (no insult meant to anyone here!) and to them, it's ONLY a TV.
I could be sexist and say that it's probably women who would say, jees it's only a TV, what's wrong with the one we have it's fine.
These I feel are the Masses, and they are still a long way from their Flat TV's at the moment.
It's the £99 type price point I think we'd have to break before they'd even remotly consider a HD player, and poss even the £49 we'd have to break.
When I bought my 1st DVD player for £99, I was only 1 of a tiny few people at work (average types - mostly men) who had a DVD player.
I'm hoping the makers will get a nasty shock when they realise they're not going to sell many at current prices.
Current Prices (£30) are amazing for a DVD player, and it's hard to bring someine in at 20 times the price which is a just a bit better (to most people on normal sets)
That's so true, my Mum only got her first DVD player last year and her TV is a 21" 4:3. I think she only changes TV every 8 years or so, and my dad would only buy a second hand set.
Boink! is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2006, 07:52   #96
neilalford
I angered a crow
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Bristol
Posts: 7,617
Thanks: 7
Thanked 115 Times in 62 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempest
I'm hoping the makers will get a nasty shock when they realise they're not going to sell many at current prices.

Current Prices (£30) are amazing for a DVD player, and it's hard to bring someine in at 20 times the price which is a just a bit better (to most people on normal sets)
I doubt they expect to sell many at the current prices, at the moment it's early adopters who will be buying them, people who are willing to pay those sort of prices, the first DVD player I bought (and also the first one released I believe) cost me £330 (rrp £400) for a totally basic model, which is roughly comparable to, if not slightly more than, the first HD-DVD player. In fact if I was to go out and buy an HD-DVD player now I think it would be the cheapest DVD player I've ever bought, not including a £280 Sony 930 I got rid of after a month because it was rubbish! But obviously as time goes on, the prices will drop, and I doubt it will be that long till sub £100 players start appearing, in fact I imagine we'll be looking at a similar timescale to DVD.

I don't currently plan to rush out and buy a HD-DVD player mind you, for a couple of reasons, the main one being that my projector isn't HD but also because I'd want to get a player at a similar build quality to my current one (a Denon 2900) and I believe with these first players you're paying a premium for their HD abilities but I imagine that in other areas (CD playback etc) they will be weaker than my current player. Oh, and also I'd ideally want a player that's multi-region for both HD-DVD, SD DVD and which also plays SACD and DVD-Audio, though I could live without SACD as I only have one album in that format.

So I will be holding off for a little while, until the mid to high-end players start appearing, by which point I imagine they'll cost a similar amount (or maybe slightly more) than the current entry-level players.

Though I may end up getting an HD-DVD drive for the X-Box to tide me over, though I'm not expecting that to be especially good based on the usual DVD playback performance of most consoles.

Last edited by neilalford; 07-07-2006 at 07:56.
neilalford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2006, 08:41   #97
Guest 23584
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 937
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I agree with a lot,of comments on this topic. What i always find puzzling is people investing in a technology but not being particularly bothered about picture quality. I remember people rushing out to buy dvd players and then watching them on normal 4:3 televisions and saying the quality was not that great!!!! Another example would be a couple that i observed whilst in a electrical store. They were looking at LCD screens and one said to the other "It's not much better than dvd is it?" That was after looking at a screen with a poor feed and a soft picture!!!!!!

Another thing that bugged me was when people were raving about the Lord Of The Rings EE r2 dvds. The picture quality was rubbish! Filtered, poorly handled compression (especially the first one) and badly handled grain. Yet people were raving saying it was the best transfers they had ever seen! Where are these people looking?
Guest 23584 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2006, 15:10   #98
Tempest
Trusted User
 
Tempest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Horley (Gatwick)
Posts: 26,521
Thanks: 919
Thanked 737 Times in 449 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by neilalford

Though I may end up getting an HD-DVD drive for the X-Box to tide me over, though I'm not expecting that to be especially good based on the usual DVD playback performance of most consoles.
I could well be totally wrong here, but I'd expect the quality to be very good from this add-on.

My reasoning is that HD-DVD is all about image quality, pretty much nothing else.
If Microsoft release a HD-DVD player which is not VERY good, they are going to have the poo kicked out of them and the product rubbished by everyone, DVD Hardware Reviews, Sony (with their BluRay).

If the HD-DVD drive was built in, and needed for games anyway, then you could get away with only OK(ish) performance for a movie as playing a movie was just a bonus on top of the console operation.

But to make a seperate unit JUST for playing films, and then to make it poor would be suicide.
Tempest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2006, 15:17   #99
Guest 10592
Come along, Pond.
 
Guest 10592's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Doombase
Posts: 9,592
Thanks: 0
Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempest
Would I be right in thinking the cheapest way of getting a HD-DVD player is going to be when Microsoft launch it for the Xbox360?

Going to be £130 (ish) isn't it?

Assuming you already have a 360 that it.

Going to make the current prices of HD-DVD Players look a bit silly within the next 5 months.
My guess is that the add-on has no video circuitry in it whatsoever, so the HD-DVD picture will be rendered by the 360's GPU at 1280x720... not an issue for most people, and hopefully by the time 1080p screens are availably widely, HD-DVD players will be a lot cheaper.

I have to admit though that this will be the HD-DVD player I'll be waiting for myself.
Guest 10592 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2006, 15:36   #100
Tempest
Trusted User
 
Tempest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Horley (Gatwick)
Posts: 26,521
Thanks: 919
Thanked 737 Times in 449 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandmaster
My guess is that the add-on has no video circuitry in it whatsoever, so the HD-DVD picture will be rendered by the 360's GPU at 1280x720... not an issue for most people, and hopefully by the time 1080p screens are availably widely, HD-DVD players will be a lot cheaper.

I have to admit though that this will be the HD-DVD player I'll be waiting for myself.
You could well be right.
I think it was mentioned that this box will have the HDMI connectors on the back of it (the drive itself)

So do we assume the addon box will read the data, it will get passed to the 360 via whatever connection cable they use, processed, then back down the cable to the unit to be output via it's HDMI connector/s ?
Tempest is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
HD-DVD Disc

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

All times are GMT. The time now is 17:47.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2018 Poisonous Monkey Ltd. Part of The Digital Fix Network