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Old 05-07-2006, 18:07   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyWilson
That's a total pile of testicles! Plenty of movie lovers are quite happy with a small screen and DVD quality. It's only us geeks who soil ourselves at the thought of higher definition so we can see every pock mark in Willem Defoe's face!

There's a very very large chunk of people whose attitude to HD is "so what?"
So you're saying that if any given movie fan were offered a state-of-the-art HD set-up that they would decline in favour of their current inferior equipment?

People may well say 'so what' - but my argument is that that's because they can't afford it, not that they don't want it. I want it, but can't afford it right now. But when it becomes affordable I reckon everyone will be scrambling for a slice of the HD pie.
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Old 05-07-2006, 18:08   #62
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I'm going to be interested how the manufacturers play this HD thing.

The very fact that there are 2 formats, although a stupid state of affairs, in normal business, it SHOULD be good for consumers as it's not a monopoly and you have 2 competing standards that both want to win.

which (in theory) should bring prices down.

also, the prices of the actual films too.

I know there was/is talk about HD-DVD doing the SD and HD version of the film on the same disk.

It's obvious really, the makers need to get movies and players into people's homes.

The PS3 is going to get a LOT of BluRay players into homes next year,

I'm not sure how the HD-DVD camp will manage, unless the Xbox360 will help (though I don't feel this will have much of a impact)

If they deliberatly keep prices high for a premium product, then it will fail and remain a niche product.

Be intersting to see where we are in another 2 years from now.
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Old 05-07-2006, 19:20   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkman
So you're saying that if any given movie fan were offered a state-of-the-art HD set-up that they would decline in favour of their current inferior equipment?
Well there's plenty of music fans who prefer to listen to music on their 'inferior' record players.
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Old 05-07-2006, 19:52   #64
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Originally Posted by Harsin
Well there's plenty of music fans who prefer to listen to music on their 'inferior' record players.
Apples and oranges. I think the "record vs. CD" argument has parallels with the "film vs. digital" argument, but not when it comes to low resolution DVD vs. high resolution DVD. I think a more appropriate parallel would be to compare listening to a low quality RealAudio download of a song vs. listening to the full CD quality version (or, to be fair, a high bit rate MP3/WMA/ATRAC).

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Old 05-07-2006, 20:50   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkman
So you're saying that if any given movie fan were offered a state-of-the-art HD set-up that they would decline in favour of their current inferior equipment?

People may well say 'so what' - but my argument is that that's because they can't afford it, not that they don't want it. I want it, but can't afford it right now. But when it becomes affordable I reckon everyone will be scrambling for a slice of the HD pie.
I'd say that they would. Most people's enjoyment of a film isn't enhanced at all by the picture quality. Practical concerns like how unobtrusive the screen is are a greater concern to most.

I was an early adopter of DVD - but that was partly because I'm a gadget geek and partly software driven - I wanted a copy of The Big Lebowski and the only available VHS version was about $70. I could afford HD quite easily but there is nothing that makes me want it yet - and as I said, I'm a gadget geek. The average person in the street couldn't care less - it's nothing to do with affordability.
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Old 05-07-2006, 21:15   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyWilson
I'd say that they would. Most people's enjoyment of a film isn't enhanced at all by the picture quality. Practical concerns like how unobtrusive the screen is are a greater concern to most.

I was an early adopter of DVD - but that was partly because I'm a gadget geek and partly software driven - I wanted a copy of The Big Lebowski and the only available VHS version was about $70. I could afford HD quite easily but there is nothing that makes me want it yet - and as I said, I'm a gadget geek. The average person in the street couldn't care less - it's nothing to do with affordability.
This reminds me so much of that ad on TV for long-life lightbulbs.

Salesperson: "You can have lightbulb A, which is very dim and burns out really quickly, or you can have lightbulb B, which is bright and lasts for ages. Both cost the same."
(Long pause)
Customer: "No, I'll just take lightbulb A."
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Old 05-07-2006, 22:37   #67
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Why? Lightbulb B has an obvious advantage over bulb A.

High Definition does not necessarily make a film any more enjoyable.
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Old 05-07-2006, 23:14   #68
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And long life light bulbs aren't bright anyway They're rubbis if you only need a light on for a few minutes as they take ages to warm up.
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Old 05-07-2006, 23:23   #69
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Well, y'know, over the years I've heard/read a lot of people talking about movies and how they want to see the film as the director intended. Well, standard definition DVD ain't it - not even close. Doesn't come anywhere near to touching the resolution of 35mm film. So each and every technology advancement brings us closer to that. So why wouldn't movie lovers embrace that?
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Old 05-07-2006, 23:25   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyWilson
High Definition does not necessarily make a film any more enjoyable.
By that logic we should have all remained happy with VHS. After all, it's the movie that counts, eh? The delivery format can't possibly make the viewing experience more enjoyable, can it?
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Old 06-07-2006, 06:37   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkman
Well, y'know, over the years I've heard/read a lot of people talking about movies and how they want to see the film as the director intended. Well, standard definition DVD ain't it - not even close. Doesn't come anywhere near to touching the resolution of 35mm film. So each and every technology advancement brings us closer to that. So why wouldn't movie lovers embrace that?
Because the size of the display and the distance you sit away from it have a massive impact on the amount of actual resolution the human eye can detect. Not everyone has the space or the inclination or the indeed the money to splash out on a huge screen. Does that make them unable to be a movie lover?

DVD *did* sort out a lot of the problems of VHS - proper anamorphic support for widescreen TVs, totally stable digital image, digital mapping to get the most out of the available resolution on a standard definition screen. I'd say it's a perfectly viable playback medium for most people's lifestyles.
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Old 06-07-2006, 08:56   #72
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I really want a HD projector , but weve only had our other one two year so mrs wont let me get more debt on!!


I reckon HD DVD will take off big style once the prices drop, remember whatever you say about currys etc they are very good at giving people credit! Every Joe bloggs with a passing interest in technology will be persuaded into getting hi-def stuff.


Out of interest, what size are these HD-DVD discs in terms of GB?
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Old 06-07-2006, 09:08   #73
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Out of interest, what size are these HD-DVD discs in terms of GB?
30 GB for a dual-layer disc.
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Old 06-07-2006, 10:34   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkman
By that logic we should have all remained happy with VHS. After all, it's the movie that counts, eh? The delivery format can't possibly make the viewing experience more enjoyable, can it?
That logic is wrong. It's more like comparing CD to SACD. I'm not going to start loving my favourite Stones album more because it's on SACD am I? That's the point he was making.

VHS delivered barely anything close to a cinema experience, the dependance on analogue tape technology, which only offered a 3rd of broadcast resolution and audio that was limited to dolby stereo, with dropouts galore. The leap from DVD to HD-DVD is quite significant but is in no way comparable to the leap from VHS to DVD.

Last edited by thescrounger; 06-07-2006 at 10:49.
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Old 06-07-2006, 13:23   #75
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Sorry, but I disagree. This is easily as big as the VHS to DVD leap. Having just watched Serenity on HD-DVD, there's no way I could ever go back to the DVD. The difference is H U G E.
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Old 06-07-2006, 13:53   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Mackenzie
Sorry, but I disagree. This is easily as big as the VHS to DVD leap. Having just watched Serenity on HD-DVD, there's no way I could ever go back to the DVD. The difference is H U G E.

My favorite so far.
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Old 06-07-2006, 15:02   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Mackenzie
Sorry, but I disagree. This is easily as big as the VHS to DVD leap. Having just watched Serenity on HD-DVD, there's no way I could ever go back to the DVD. The difference is H U G E.
The difference is big, but the leap is not the same. Objectively as a format it is not the same.

Last edited by thescrounger; 06-07-2006 at 15:20.
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Old 06-07-2006, 15:28   #78
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Have you seen the HD-DVD of Serenity?
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Old 06-07-2006, 15:31   #79
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No, but your not seeing the point, that objectively as a format the leap is not the same. They are both disc formats, both offer a level of interactivety that VHS did not. The fact the HD-DVD has vastly better image quality does not mean that the leap from DVD to HD-DVD is the same. Yes in terms of image quality but not in terms of a format objectively. Do you get me? If anything the leap is smaller. It's a less painful upgrade, than the 'leap' to a brand new format that VHS was.

Last edited by thescrounger; 06-07-2006 at 15:33.
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Old 06-07-2006, 15:32   #80
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Yeah, I think so - I was thinking primarily of image quality, which, to be honest, is going to be the easiest thing to demonstrate in in-store displays.
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