Yeah, I can't see them keeping the non-linear structure from the book, they'll adapt books 4&5 together and maybe even the end/beginning of books 2&3&4 as well (which IIRC overlap time-wise).
I finished a couple of weeks ago, as luckily ADWD came out just in time for my holiday.
I can't say I'm not a little disappointed. It was a good read, but I was hoping to see the plot move forward further than it did. The Reek/Theon chapters were exceptional though... perhaps some of the best in the series so far. I really enjoyed the Arya chapters too... she's a great POV and I'm intrigued as to where she's going to end up in the great scheme of things.
Well have gotten to P500 now and I have to admit it is picking up for me.
Still can't believe I haven't finished it yet though! Under normal circumstances it would not last a week but I am struggling for time to read it.
I finished a couple of weeks ago, as luckily ADWD came out just in time for my holiday.
I can't say I'm not a little disappointed. It was a good read, but I was hoping to see the plot move forward further than it did. The Reek/Theon chapters were exceptional though... perhaps some of the best in the series so far. I really enjoyed the Arya chapters too... she's a great POV and I'm intrigued as to where she's going to end up in the great scheme of things.
I totally agree, despite it being absolutely massive in reading terms, it was only really treading water with regards to the actual story IMO. There were a lot of Danaerys, Tyrion and Jon chapters that didn't really add much. As mentioned, the Reek chapters were very powerful and really portrayed Lord Ramsey as a truly evil *******, pun intended!
I finished it late last night, and really enjoyed it overall. It's a far better read that Feast, but it doesn't quite match up to the earlier novels. At points, the story seems to be rushing forward with great action and twists, but then there are long sections where the plot just seems to be standing still.
The best chapters were Arya, Theon, Tyrion and Barristan - there was both tension and surprise throughout all of their chapters. I can't help but feel disappointed at the inclusion of Jaime's one and only chapter, which was just not enough. Surely that could have been kept in Feast? Melisandre and Bran were also underused, I was looking forward to hearing more about them, but it never came.
The same can be said for Davos, his story was amongst the most interesting in the book but we got very little of it, and instead had to sit through a ton of Jon and Dany chapters where very little was happening. They could have been condensed. I'm disappointed that the Cersei chapters never took us up to her trial by combat.
Many things I did not see coming, and I really wish I hadn't joined in chapter discussions on various forums as I read, because most other people are much more astute than me and managed to figure things out from clues which I had not noticed. Notably, the whole Griff/Young Griff turning out to be Jon Connington and Baby Aegon - I would not have guessed that ever. I didn't even know who Jon Connington was.
Jon Snow seems to have ended very badly, but I'm sure he's not dead. His warg abilities may save him if nothing else. The Theon and Arya chapters were probably the best written and utterly engaging throughout; Ramsay Bolton needs a horrible death. The character of Victarion seems to have undergone a big personality shift compared to the last book, here he was a bit of a git and executing people left, right and centre - and again, I'm disappointed that his story never actually got anywhere. I was waiting for characters to present themselves to Dany, and it never happened apart from poor Quentyn ("the hero never dies", nice nod to A Game of Thrones!).
The best parts of the whole novel were the (far too few) scenes involving dragons. Drogon's arrival at the pit literally had me whoop with joy and then realise how bad the situation was becoming. It was bugging me no end that Dany was just letting her dragons sit in the dark chained up when she should be teaching them, working with them all the time. Much like Ned Stark, she made very bad choices all through this book.
One thing I'm glad still exists is Martin's wonderful writing style. He has a flair for scene setting and really putting you in the moment, going utterly visceral when need be.
Read it all over the last week in Tenerife (finished half an hour before our pickup for the flight home.)
Pretty much agree with your summary above, LeftHandedGuitarist.
Some great stuff with Jon, Tyrion and Theon. Lots of tantalising threads left hanging though -- Brienne's reintroduction in the Jaime chapter after the ending in Crows with no further explanation and Davos' story arc abruptly dropped in the middle of the book. I also thought the siege at Storm's End would be covered in this book and how Loras Tyrell's mortal wounding came about.
I'd kind of assumed Tyrion and Varys would have been travelling together in this after leaving King's Landing (I always liked the relationship that developed between the two of them) so was somewhat dissapointed at Varys' absence. Epilogue made up for that though.
There was a descriptive bit in one of the Tyrion chapters (possibly in the brothel?) which particularly made me chuckle where Tyrion suddenly thinks he catches a glimpse of Illyrio Mopatis walking by outside but then realizes it's just an elephant.
Great read.
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Finished this last night.
I agree with the reviews/comments above
Good read but stilted in parts and I agree I would not have made many of thos connections myself at all.
I think Jon Snow HAS to live because Melisandre asked to be shown Azhor Azai in the fires and she saw JS
Okay, just finished. I forgot about the bloody sections at the back about the houses so when Kindle said I was 91% through or whatever the epilogue started.
I partially agree with the comments made above but I'm not sure we did 'tread water' any more than in other books. I'm reminded of how long it took Arya to get to The Twins and then the Red Wedding happened, for example.
That said, I did feel like too many of Tyron's chapters had him being reactive rather than actually doing stuff (until the end) and it seemed odd to me that no one actually met up at Meereen. What was 'The Knot' if not the meeting of all those characters? Could he actually have moved that into the next book because he was still having problems?
LHG, the Jamie chapter couldn't have happened in AFFC because Brienne is hanged at the end of that. Now we know she was either saved or (more probably?) an animated corpse, presumably with Catelyn having given over her 'gift'.
The Jon chapter. Oh god. That was horrific. I don't know about him still being alive in the normal sense. Maybe he'll be reanimated by Melisandre, or maybe she left to prepare for him to survive somehow?
Also, how is Stannis dead but Theon and Jayne still missing? That's the weirdest part of it. Maybe something else is going on.
Question RE:Stannis for those who've read the whole book:
The sounds of drums they heard in Winterfell that they assumed were Stannis were actually someone who I thought was in Winterfell with the Boltons. Is that not correct? I feel like I'm losing track.
The Jon chapter. Oh god. That was horrific. I don't know about him still being alive in the normal sense. Maybe he'll be reanimated by Melisandre, or maybe she left to prepare for him to survive somehow?
I was thinking on this last night and it occurred to me about GRRM setting up the thing about wargs shifting into another's body to avoid death in the prologue. A way out for Jon perhaps?
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I was thinking on this last night and it occurred to me about GRRM setting up the thing about wargs shifting into another's body to avoid death in the prologue. A way out for Jon perhaps?
I don't really agree about that. Also the point was surely that you can't really survive as the new creature. I guess maybe he'll be back as a wolf but that wouldn't help the plot much. Either way, it's a massive downer I think.
I don't really agree about that. Also the point was surely that you can't really survive as the new creature. I guess maybe he'll be back as a wolf but that wouldn't help the plot much. Either way, it's a massive downer I think.
As a creature no. But wasn't Varamyr aiming to take the girls body before his own died in the prologue? Might be I'm hazy on the details. Be gutted if Jon is dead dead though. The other Stark losses have been brutal and bitter pills to take but Jon's would be ripping the soul out.
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Yeah but the other stark deaths have been clarified as dead - father and son lost their heads.
There was no definite "death" ending here only a presumption of fatal injury by us.
As a creature no. But wasn't Varamyr aiming to take the girls body before his own died in the prologue? Might be I'm hazy on the details. Be gutted if Jon is dead dead though. The other Stark losses have been brutal and bitter pills to take but Jon's would be ripping the soul out.
That isn't Jon's style, though. To take another's life away, I mean. I agree totally that him being dead is a terrible notion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by riz1
Yeah but the other stark deaths have been clarified as dead - father and son lost their heads.
There was no definite "death" ending here only a presumption of fatal injury by us.
Barring Tyron's almost drowning I'm not sure that's quite Martin's style, to come back and say, "Oh, luckily it was only a flesh wound," or something. I guess we can allow that Melisandre can heal him but only at some great cost, I'm sure, like Victarion's arm. There would have to be a cost for Jon to stay in the game.
The main question I'm left with:
Does anyone know where this is leading? I mean by not having a single hero or a 'quest' of any sort we're left completely unsure what Martin sees as his finalé.
Prior to this book I had been thinking we were looking at Dany coming back to reclaim the throne with Jon in some pivotal role in the North and maybe Arya returning to wreak vengeance over her family's enemies.
Now Jon appears to be scratched out in the traditional sense I was thinking and Arya's training seems to be leading her to position where she will take no part in this sort of thing... Dunno, it's rare to read a strongly plotted story but similarly have no clue where it might be going.
I partially agree with the comments made above but I'm not sure we did 'tread water' any more than in other books. I'm reminded of how long it took Arya to get to The Twins and then the Red Wedding happened, for example.
While there's no more treading water than in other books, the story is reaching a stage now where we're all looking for things to start moving properly on the whole Battle for Westeros/Battle against the Others front, but instead we're still getting chapter-after-chapter showing us how you can't travel one mile in this world without getting assaulted, murdered or kidnapped.[/spoiler]
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheoGB
LHG, the Jamie chapter couldn't have happened in AFFC because Brienne is hanged at the end of that. Now we know she was either saved or (more probably?) an animated corpse, presumably with Catelyn having given over her 'gift'.
It's not certain whether Brienne was killed at the end of AFFC because she screamed out a word just as it started. I personally don't think she's undead because Zombie Catelyn clearly has a purpose to exact revenge so there's no real impetus to give Brienne her "breathe" (or whatever it's called), plus there seemed no indications that she was undead when she met with Jaime (her scars from Biter were all that was mentioned regarding her appearance iirc).
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheoGB
The Jon chapter. Oh god. That was horrific. I don't know about him still being alive in the normal sense. Maybe he'll be reanimated by Melisandre, or maybe she left to prepare for him to survive somehow?
Yeah I'm thinking he will be saved by Mellisandre (or possibly Edd/Val/Tormund), but I'm dreading the thought that he could be forever "altered" by her magic (but then there's the possiblity that Jon will react differently to Rhaellor's fire magic than ordinary people and it may have some sort of affinity towards him specifically).
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheoGB
Also, how is Stannis dead but Theon and Jayne still missing? That's the weirdest part of it. Maybe something else is going on.
They could have slipped out of Stannis' camp during the battle, but in any case I think there's a chance Stannis is still alive because wasn't it the Manderly and Frey hosts that Roose Bolton sent out against Stannis's host?? We know the Manderlys are secretely plotting against Bolton, so they could have helped Stannis defeat the Frey host and then returned to Winterfell with false information and false proof that Stannis has been defeated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheoGB
The sounds of drums they heard in Winterfell that they assumed were Stannis were actually someone who I thought was in Winterfell with the Boltons. Is that not correct? I feel like I'm losing track.
That could possibly have been either Mance Rayner's group or Manderly's men.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheoGB
Wouldn't Theon have told Stannis about Karstark?
Yup, you have Theon already in Stannis's camp and the Manderlys approaching so there is definitely opportunity for Stannis to have survived the Bolton assault with the upper hand to spread misinformation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheoGB
Does anyone know where this is leading? I mean by not having a single hero or a 'quest' of any sort we're left completely unsure what Martin sees as his finalé.
I think Rhaegar's prophecy that Daenerys witnessed in The House of the Undying in A Dance with Dragons is the key to the coming war. We saw Rhaegar state that he needed three children because "the dragon has three heads", and Daenerys took that to infer that her forces would be complete when she has a rider for each of her dragons. These three riders will help turn the tide against the others, we've now got confirmation that Daenrys is one of the riders and we also know that Rhaegar believed Aegon would be one of the "heads" as well.
The question is now is whether Aegon will play such a pivotal role in the story given he was introduced so late, and if not: who will be the other two "heads"? Personally I'm fairly convinced as to who one of the other heads is, (The revelation in this book that Elia couldn't bear children after Aegon pretty much confirmed it for me) but I'm not certain whether the third one will be Aegon or not.
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