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gavinhanly · 19-09-2009, 20:51

I know there's a general Fringe thread, but surely this deserves a new thread of its own? (and it allows us to get rid of that annoying "rip off" heading)

The twist at the end was predictable, which I think is why they couldn't string it out any longer than one episode. But at least it gives Charlie something to do. Although it was a shame Luke Goss couldn't stick around longer...

Not quite sure why the series needs two glamorous FBI agents, hope there's at least some distinction between Dunham and the new one.

But overall very good and am just left waiting for the revelation of what happened in her meeting with Spock. Quite clever of them to string that bit out for a few episodes. Also curious about the Revelation references...

DrVenkman · 20-09-2009, 07:33

It had a great opening I thought, and it's good to see Peter is more "Take charge" than he was in Season 1. However...

1) Anna Torv is tied with Elisha Dushku for the worst lead actress in a drama right now.

2) What exactly is the purpose of the new FBI agent? For a time I got excited and thought they were going to kill off Agent Dunham. And what is the purpose of her trying to guess the computer password when she seemingly has it written on a piece of paper in front of her?

3) The show quite clearly had no idea what to do with Charlie, and it obviously still doesn't. Let's not go down the '24' route of "There's a mole in this office!". We also won't mention the complete lack of oversight on the FBI's part. Here's a hint, there should be another body.

gavinhanly · 20-09-2009, 08:26

Actually - as far as the Charlie thing went, how exactly did the bad guy manage to change into his clothes in the matter of seconds it took the others to catch up? That whole bit was rather sloppily written, have to admiit.

statto · 20-09-2009, 09:51

That's assuming the shots they heard were the ones real Charlie fired - I don't think they were. I figure it went something like:

1. Shapeshifter kills nurse while she's having a fag break in the basement.
2. Shapeshifter lures Charlie into said basement in order to kill him.
3. Shapeshifter kills Charlie, changes into him, and swaps his body for the nurses, taking his clothes.
4. Shapeshifter pumps a few rounds into the dead nurse (which are the shots the other two hear).

As far as there being an extra body, the one they're looking for is the nurse, not Charlie. Having said that, considering bullets had zero effect on the shifter I'd be wary of Charlie's ability to kill it by shooting it. If a soldiers programming tells him to stay on mission then the first thing he needs to do is go and kill Anna Torv. I get the feeling that won't be happening.

DrVenkman · 20-09-2009, 10:30

Don't we pretty much see Charlie shoot? Charlie has his gun out and we cut right before he fires. As the scene cuts we hear the gunshots. The reason we don't see Charlie actually fire is obviously so the reveal later on would work.

It's just essentially something the writers overlooked. I do concede that though through editing we're meant to assume that Peter and the other Agent hear the gunshots and arrive 10 seconds later, whereas in reality it could've been a couple of minutes.

Richie · 20-09-2009, 11:58

I really enjoyed this season opener! I didn't click with Fringe in season 1 and only saw a few eps (incl the finale) but this episode will keep me watching and probably get me to go back and watch Season 1 in full now.

Also, for the first time, I found Walter endearing not annoying!

WeaselFierce · 20-09-2009, 12:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrVenkman

3) The show quite clearly had no idea what to do with Charlie, and it obviously still doesn't. Let's not go down the '24' route of "There's a mole in this office!". We also won't mention the complete lack of oversight on the FBI's part. Here's a hint, there should be another body.

I seriously doubt they know what to do with new replacement FBI chick either though (beyond the note from the studio saying they need more women on the show).

Kirk Acevedo is a fine actor but was given virtually nothing to do all last season. Somehow, simply replacing him with a blander female character doesn't really strike me as the right move though.

I may well be proved wrong though...

DrVenkman · 20-09-2009, 12:56

Walter and Peter are increasingly becoming the best part of the show, and clearly the 2 actors have great chemistry. The show would've been so much better had it focused on the two of those and had Olivia on the sidelines instead.

As for the new FBI chick. She reminds me of someone in a Bad video game.

"Ok so you're going to see all this crazy stuff and you're not even going to question it, not once. Just accept what it is".

I honestly expected more from JJ Abrams. But it's clear that this new girl is nothing more than a note from the network (Like the inclusion of Moon Bloodgood in 'Burn Notice').

Richie · 20-09-2009, 13:13

Um, first thing she witnesses is Olivia going through a windscreen out of nowhere! It's pretty conclusive to her from that point that what the Fringe division is doing is real, no? I'd say as an eager to get ahead young agent she follows her evidence with tenacity. Besides, she's been in one episode, give her a chance to have a character first!

DrVenkman · 20-09-2009, 14:36

No that's fair enough, but they could at least give the idea that she's trying to fit into this world. As it is though she just acts as if it's another day in the office, and that's down to bad writing. Even Olivia retained some skepticism after everything she'd seen throughout part of Season 1.

Guest 10392 · 21-09-2009, 11:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by gavinhanly

I know there's a general Fringe thread, but surely this deserves a new thread of its own? (and it allows us to get rid of that annoying "rip off" heading)

In reference to that I loved the 2 (at least?) direct references to X-Files in the first episode of season 2.

Regarding the Charlie switch, I think that Charlie was replaced by a 2nd shape-shifter that killed Charlie before the scenes we see of him searching the basement ending with the shooting of the nurse shape-shifter. This then means there is no need to explain the time required for changing clothes and shape shifting between the shots and the appearance of Peter.

In addition I think this explains why the nurse shape shifter just drops down and has an odd look on her face right before Charlie shoots her.

Brozyniak · 21-09-2009, 22:14

I go the impression that the new FBI agent is some sort of fanatic looking for signs in these occurrences that will protend the end of the world as fortold in the Bible.

Could be an interesing arc.

Shingster · 21-09-2009, 23:26

That was hands down the worst episode of Fringe to date and a real embarassment for all involved. All the solidly built character and plot development from the 1st season just thrown down the toilet in exchange for completely nonsensical plotting - even by Fringe standards - and some of the most laughable dialogue exchanges I have ever witnessed in the 1-hour format. If this had been the Season 01 opener I never would have stuck with the series, and I thought the pilot was bad! I guarantee you will not watch a single scene on TV all year that matches the awfulness of Agent Broyles going before the review board! Written and directed by Akiva Goldsman no less! Soon as I saw his name at the start I thought "uh-oh"

The positive response bodes well for the reception of s2 in general on these boards, as if you think that was good then you're prepared to gobble down any **** Kurtzman and Orci will serve up!

Richie · 21-09-2009, 23:35

If that was the worst to date then I missed a treat skipping most of season 1 didn't I! I'd better remedy that!
Methinks your own prejudices are clouding your judgement.

Shingster · 22-09-2009, 00:22

Prejudices? I think after a very slow start Fringe developed into a pretty decent slice of sci-fi hokum in s1 and I was quite looking forward to its return, plus it's not like I have no time whatsoever for everything Akiva Goldsman has written (I'm happy to sit down to The Client and I, Robot for instance), and I was genuinely curious to see how he'd fare as director - but when you see Brett Ratner's name appear at the start of a film the normal first response is not to go "ooh, this is going to be excellent!" is it?

TonyG · 22-09-2009, 11:09

I certainly didn't observe any drop in quality in either direction or writing. I personally thought it was as good as any of the latter half of S1. My friends & work collegues also agree.

DrVenkman · 22-09-2009, 17:16

Direction was fine (And Goldsman made a great debut as Director last season) but the writing was all over the place. It was also Goldsman who told them to "Get on with it" after the original plan was not to reveal the alternate realities until much later in the run.

I like some of the episode (Peter becoming more pro-active is a good choice, and actually gives Joshua Jackson something to do). But it seems like a story that was riddled with network notes.