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The404 · 01-05-2010, 21:56

One thing I don't understand is, for River, the events in the finale have already happened, including this 'Big bang' which causes the crack but she seems like this is the first she's seen it.

There's a scene involving the Doctor and River when they are walking through the forrest:

River : What's that?
Doctor : Errrr... Readings from the crack in the wall.
River : How could a crack in the wall be the end of the universe?
Doctor : I dunno, but here's what I think; One day there's going to be a very big bang. So big, every moment in history - past, present and future will crack.
River : Is that possible? How?

Now, if River has already experienced this, surely she knows?

eye__writ · 01-05-2010, 22:01

Excuse me if I'm wrong here, because I've just watched Back To The Future 2 and it confused the ***** out of me, so I'm hardly an academic on such things!

She hasn't experienced this. She's a time traveller who's experiencing things out of order. So she's met an older Doctor and had adventures with him we haven't seen, but this isn't a time-line that she's revisiting.

scoobyood · 01-05-2010, 22:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by hookbeak

Great spot. We will be seeing that scene again I reckon.

ohhh that is interesting.. didn't spot the continuity thing but his pointed question and the way his hand came into shot was definitely deliberate and out of place.

Moffat if you pull off some immense time loop with this season and thread in an entire plot into the show that no one ever saw.. kudos sir, you are truly urinating on RTD from a great height.

ajr90 · 01-05-2010, 22:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by The404

One thing I don't understand is, for River, the events in the finale have already happened, including this 'Big bang' which causes the crack but she seems like this is the first she's seen it.

Now, if River has already experienced this, surely she knows?

Given the way Moffat plays with time so much, I don't think it's safe to assume that it has already happened for River, and that she already knows. I can't remember there being anything that definitely points to it happening in River's past rather than in her future.

And don't forget, the crack is also changing things that people should know but don't - like Amy not knowing about the Daleks when she should.

sleepy67 · 01-05-2010, 22:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajr90

And don't forget, the crack is also changing things that people should know but don't - like Amy not knowing about the Daleks when she should.

and hasn't the Doctor being saying this season that time can be rewritten?

The404 · 01-05-2010, 22:16

Gah.. Its got me confused anyway. I was under the impression that this big explosion happens on 26/6/10, the date of the finale, which is when the Pandorica opens which River says at the end of this episode has already happened to her.

Anyway, I'm going to stop trying to make sense of it all until i've seen all 13 episodes.

I really hope the quality doesn't take a dip leading up to the finale. The Moff doesn't write another episode till 12 and 13

Guest 11070 · 01-05-2010, 22:30

I thought it was excellent, apart from the 'walk like you can see' nonsense, which I thought was a bit crap. Also the Angels' abilities seem to be a bit up and down, like when the Bishop was trapped - lots of blinking from the Doctor there.

I do like the idea of an arching story, and I think Ep1 points to that. I'm not 100% convinced about that scene in this episode though. Part of me thinks reshoot (Matt sounded like he had a cold!), but the other part of me really really wants it to be an amazing plot device!

Overall the MoFo brings in another corker. I think Amy's behaviour isn't quite what it seems either.

scoobyood · 01-05-2010, 23:02

New Who review for you... feel free to comment etc.

http://cult.thedigitalfix.co.uk/Cont...and-stone.html

cliff homewood · 01-05-2010, 23:32

I also wondered about the blinking in the Bishop scene, we had scene that the angels powers did not always work, so might be a subtle link to that, or was it a continuity one where they run out of time filming so had to make do. Its amazing it made it in as its so important in such a story that the doctor doesn't blink whilst facing one.

Excellent story though, some fascinating bits, from Amy appearing to be an anachronism or possessed by something (reminds me of some of RTDs plotting though, with Bad WOlf Rose and the TARDIS power creating 'something that should never be' in Captain Jack). Also would love that the River Song thing would tie into the Valeyard. Long shot though.

Ricinus · 02-05-2010, 00:30

Totally brilliant episode - by far the best 2nd half of a 2-parter for me.
My kid loved it too, especially the scary Amy alone bit. (Although as I've said before the bit she finds the scariest is the KISSING!!)

Jim989 · 02-05-2010, 00:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by hookbeak

It can't be a mistake for one obvious reason : what he says to her makes no sense whatsoever and has no resolution within the episode.

I agree. This cannot be a mistake. If you go back to the first episode, people thought that the re-materialisation sound was just a memory. I felt that there was more to this. However, the time-span did confuse me in a way that the tardis is not working correctly because there has been a lot of dates wrong (or gone past) what it should have been. And if I recall correctly he blamed this on being a new tardis??

Quote:

Originally Posted by eye__writ

She hasn't experienced this. She's a time traveller who's experiencing things out of order. So she's met an older Doctor and had adventures with him we haven't seen, but this isn't a time-line that she's revisiting.

Yes, this is a first hand experience for her. So what may have happened in her previous years could be the future for the doctor since he can appear in any time but, from what I understand, she is not a time-traveller and thus you see her out of sequence.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleepy67

and hasn't the Doctor being saying this season that time can be rewritten?

From memory, only this episode has he made such a bold claim. In the past I think he referred to this as alternative dimensions/times.

I still think there is something in the previous comment about the missing ducks, since this has now been mentioned more than once. But what for?

MovieMax · 02-05-2010, 02:00

Good episode, however I was hoping there might have been some type of apology before the start, stating from now on, we will not debase the show with irrelevant and distracting adverts. One extremely minor question, when the angels fell, some had legs and others just had a plinth base?

Guest 10592 · 02-05-2010, 07:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajr90

Loved it!

Best part of the episode (paraphrased):

"The crack, it's eating time energy... that means... it's erasing all the stupid stuff RTD did!"

You can't help but think that the mere mention of the "giant Cyberman walking through Victorian London" was some kind of editorial comment from Moffat on how ridiculous some of Davies' stunts were.

And to think, it's been five *whole* episodes without a single shoehorned-in-for-no-reason-at-all mention of homosexuality!

bosque · 02-05-2010, 07:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grandmaster

And to think, it's been five *whole* episodes without a single shoehorned-in-for-no-reason-at-all mention of homosexuality!

I'm sure it's been mentioned but has somehow managed to escape your vigilance

TomBarker · 02-05-2010, 07:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim989

I still think there is something in the previous comment about the missing ducks, since this has now been mentioned more than once. But what for?

They're to go with the bees from last year - it's a code that shows the series finale will be shown after the watershed.

gjkendall · 02-05-2010, 08:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by The404

I think that's who we are supposed to think it is, but it wouldn't surprise me if it was someone else. Whatever happened, even if it is him, I doubt the circumstances are quite so black and white. If it was him, why would...

I thought straight away that