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Old 30-09-2006, 19:14   #61
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Originally Posted by Johnny Vodka
So what version do you chaps watch? I'm most familiar with the longer one.
I really don't mind either one. I've got the longer cut on laserdisc and the UK edit on DVD, but because I'm a lazy sod I usually just pop the DVD on. I love the film regardless; it's the unsettling atmosphere that gets me. As for the ratio, I end up flitting between the two whenever I'm watching. It really does look superb when 'matted' to 1.78, but the height of the 4:3 framing makes the Overlook's corridors look like they carry on forever...
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Old 30-09-2006, 19:39   #62
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Originally Posted by haineshisway
The only things I find creepy are the twin girls and the empty Overlook hallways.
The twin girls bit is probably the most spooky for me. It's the one seen that truly sends a shiver down my spine. Most horror films go for the shock factor and make people jump but that scene doesn't do that and yet it will more likely creep people out and give them nightmares.

Has to be said that the music is a key factor in the creepiness of The Shining too.

I find The Shining quite refreshing compared to cliched "go for the biggest shock" horror films.

Out of interest I used to find this DukeNukem 3D level based on The Shining to be freaky too...

http://www.unrealaudio.net/theshining2/download.htm

It's the way you're wondering around The Overlook and suddenly Jack is racing towards you with an axe! It's the only game that's ever sent shivers down my spine too


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Watching at 1:78 is the ONLY way, IMO - I can't stomach it full frame - it looks silly.
Strange really. As said the corridor shots just lend themselves better to 4:3 more than 1.78:1. As you know I prefer that, but let's not go into the rights and wrongs, just that I prefer it. It's just what I'm used to and to me at 1.78:1 it just seems to have too much missing and makes the hotel seem somewhat smaller. The cinematic look of widescreen makes the whole experience less real somehow to me and thus less chilling, and the stedicam motion seems more effective to me in 4:3.


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Originally Posted by Johnny Vodka
So what version do you chaps watch? I'm most familiar with the longer one.
Definitely the longer cut. I'm so used to it from the ITV showing in the 80s. When Channel 4 showed the shorter cut it just seemed disjointed to me. Supposedly it "what the audience preferred" but why distribute the longer cut in US and shorter in Europe?

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Old 30-09-2006, 19:45   #63
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Originally Posted by gareth101
Say what you like about Kubrick but no one else could have made The Shining. A true master of cinema. Even Eyes Wide Shut had a strange eerie feel to it that only Kubrick could have been responsible for. Although I remember not really thinking too much of the latter film for some reason I couldn't get it out of my head for ages afterwards. Although I like Stephen King he is not really a great writer. Kubrick is undeniably a great director.
Well, I think King has been a great writer on numerous occasions. And I think Kubrick has been a great director on numerous occasions. And the world goes round.
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Old 30-09-2006, 19:49   #64
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I actually loathe films that go for big shocks - they really annoy me, and I sort of admire The Shining for not taking that road. But my point was that that's exactly what the trailer and all the advance publicity seemed to promise - and I think the annoyance of the audiences upon its release was based on that undelivered promise. They didn't want moody or creepy, especially those who'd read the book. They wanted SCARRRRRRRY. The Omen delivered that and managed to also be a very good film (with no big jump scenes - again, I'm grateful), and The Exoricist delivered that and also managed to be a very good film. Carrie even delivers that. And that's what audiences, right or wrong, thought they'd be getting with The Shining, especially having seen the trailer.

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Old 30-09-2006, 22:52   #65
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The perversity being, as you've said, the one big jump scene (Halloran not saving the day) obviously isn't in the book and was purposely put there to flummox King fans who thought they knew what was coming...

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Old 01-10-2006, 16:09   #66
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Referring way back to the original post in this thread, from Barny, the date on the photo of Jack Nicholson at the Overlook is in fact 1921, not 1927. Sorry if anyone picked this up later on in this thread - but I'd also like to add, I seem to remember Kubrick buying up stacks of stills from old Warner Bros movies which he used in this last shot. My guess is that the still which contains Jack would be a doctored still from a Warner Bros picture, circa the 1920s. Anyone know what it is?
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Old 02-10-2006, 10:05   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haineshisway
Being in the US, I have never seen the shorter version - have no idea what's cut or why, since the version I know has never seemed overlong, not even with the extra scene with Anne Jackson at the end (it was superfluous, yes, but it didn't kill the film or anything).
Good summary of the cuts on IMDb http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0081505/alternateversions.

I've always preferred the US 'full' cut, but not had too many qualms with the cuts made for the UK/European version. Although, watching the 119m version last weekend, the abbreviated nature of Halloran's journey to The Overlook annoyed me for perhaps the first time. Also interesting to remember that Kubrick cut out the dialogue of Jack suggesting that he feels like he's been to the The Overlook before.

I hadn't read the bit on an extended cut of the axe attack before. Though it seems it may well be little more than an urban myth.
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Old 21-05-2008, 23:50   #68
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Just finished wathcing the extended cut of this and although it wasn't really scary, I have to agree that the atmosphere that Kubrick created was brilliant. The film really had high tension towards the end and I was expecting the worst for Danny and Wendy and was just just hoping that they would come out alive which thankfull they did.

Just some questions though.

Were thee scenes where Jack is being served by the barman and then talking to the waiter in the toilet and then later again in the kitchen store room just being imagined by Jack?

What were the two girls there for? Were they the waiter's daughters who he killed previously?

And what did Halarahan know about Room 237 as he told Danny not to go in there?

Finally, the ending, how did Jack get on the photo which was based in 1921?
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Old 22-05-2008, 19:11   #69
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Originally Posted by zenza View Post
Were thee scenes where Jack is being served by the barman and then talking to the waiter in the toilet and then later again in the kitchen store room just being imagined by Jack?

What were the two girls there for? Were they the waiter's daughters who he killed previously?

And what did Halarahan know about Room 237 as he told Danny not to go in there?

Finally, the ending, how did Jack get on the photo which was based in 1921?
I'm not sure there are any rational answers to these questions. I think the general idea is that in the bar, Jack is in the grips of the Overlook Hotel's evil spirits - in this instance, Lloyd the barman. Mr Grady's daughters were killed because the hotel succeeded in doing to him, what "it" seeks to do to Jack (hence Jack's final behaviour). I presume Halloran knows what happened in room 237, and that with his "shining" ability, he knows only too well what evil resides in there (Jack finds this out too, then lies about it to Wendy later). The ending always seemed to me like a forced and contived way of finishing the movie.


Question: why all the blood from the elevators? There are staircases in the hotel, but nobody ever seems to ride the elevator!
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Old 22-05-2008, 20:14   #70
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Were thee scenes where Jack is being served by the barman and then talking to the waiter in the toilet and then later again in the kitchen store room just being imagined by Jack?
To me this was him slipping and sliding from one time to another. You could easily argue it was all in his head and he's just mental but I like to think he really was there in those different times.
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Finally, the ending, how did Jack get on the photo which was based in 1921?
I always took that to mean that he'd always been there and always will be. Always!
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Old 22-05-2008, 20:59   #71
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To me this was him slipping and sliding from one time to another. You could easily argue it was all in his head and he's just mental but I like to think he really was there in those different times. I always took that to mean that he'd always been there and always will be. Always!
Yep - yours is a fun way of looking at it. And as has been mentioned for years, Nicholson's performance suggests that Torrance is already bonkers before he takes the caretaker job, so in a weird way, the opening shots of the car winding its way through the mountain roads are almost like Jake going home.

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Old 22-05-2008, 21:45   #72
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Yep - yours is a fun way of looking at it. And as has been mentioned for years, Nicholson's performance suggests that Torrance is already bonkers before he takes the caretaker job, so in a weird way, the opening shots of the car winding its way through the mountain roads are almost like Jake going home.
But that was the point of it according to Kubrick. It was just a case of when is he gonna snap as opposed to is he going to snap.

The photograph at the end is physical evidence that he has always been there.

I like to think he has always been there, but not physically.

The book is worth a read. Lots of back story concerning his dad.
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Old 23-05-2008, 01:35   #73
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That's the main problem, in terms of the film being suspenseful, which it really isn't: we know Jack's going to snap, simply because Nicholson's performance is so unbridled he's chewing through the topiary (sadly unanimated) within five minutes of getting there. Kubrick telegraphing the approaching horror by reusing the famous elevator of blood again and again andagainandagain robs it of any impact when Wendy finally does experience it. It's a very strangely constructed film.

Which isn't to say that the film isn't atmospheric - because obviously it is; it's one of the most atmospheric horror films ever made (with one of the most effective soundtracks). But it seems, in deliberately and self-consciously approaching making a "horror" film by deconstructing anything conventionally "horrific" that Kubrick was fairly fortunate that it works in the manner it does. I enjoy it most during the tongue-in-cheek bar scenes with Joe Turkel - the more darkly humorous stuff that Kubrick does so well and where Nicholson's performance works best. Of course, some people find these scenes ridiculous (such as the "I'm going to bash your brains in, Wendy" schtick).
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Old 23-05-2008, 05:53   #74
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The book is worth a read. Lots of back story concerning his dad.
Yep - I read it at the time Kubrick's film came out. I must re-read it sometime!
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Old 23-05-2008, 09:35   #75
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Kubrick telegraphing the approaching horror by reusing the famous elevator of blood again and again andagainandagain robs it of any impact when Wendy finally does experience it. It's a very strangely constructed film.
And yet that's what draws me to it - the inevitably of the scene when it finally does occur somehow generates a greater impact to my mind.

The Turkel scenes are great though. Although i've always thought that nothing tops the bathroom scene with Philip Stone in terms of the psychological aspect of the horror.
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Old 23-05-2008, 11:04   #76
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Whenever I see The Shining the films it always brings to mind are Kubrick's earlier 2001 and Last Year in Marienbad. The former is because of the deliberately slow pace, the deconstruction of what an sf/horror movie should or should not be, the idea of repetition of scenes and camera angles/movements and the idea of reincarnation. And the latter for its extreme formalism, its use of a single building - both hotels - and the idea of collapsed time and, within that, the entrapment of the psyche and the soul. And that's what I think, if you ask me.
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Old 23-05-2008, 11:46   #77
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And yet that's what draws me to it - the inevitably of the scene when it finally does occur somehow generates a greater impact to my mind.
Me too. That and the fact his family can't see the obvious. The slow build up and eventual realisation that he is truly off his tits is a stroke of genius.
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Old 23-05-2008, 12:29   #78
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I thought all the stuff happened in the film because it was built over an old indian burial ground. Works for me.
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Old 23-05-2008, 13:02   #79
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I thought all the stuff happened in the film because it was built over an old indian burial ground. Works for me.
Well, that explains the past events in The Overlook.

But it doesn't explain Danny's Shining or Jack's mental state.
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Old 23-05-2008, 18:44   #80
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Kubrick nearly completely removes the backstory of The Overlook too, so all of the visitations (the party and the costume sex, the old lady waiting for her lover who never comes etc) go completely unexplained. If you hadn't read the book, it's quite a big, incongruous slap in the face to any audience expecting "sense".
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