Companies in Administration/Bankruptcy Thread

[Boink!]

Originally Posted by jockosjungle

Just an excuse I reckon, just to close non profitable restaurants, even before all this

There's going to be a lot of that with all sorts of businesses closing.

[dbilsborough]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52156457

Debenhams set to appoint administrators

another one...

[jockosjungle]

Not surprising, Debenhams is always a bad Christmas away from the end.

I wonder if it'll also turn round a few businesses? I can't seem to get an order in at Thorntons, says they've got too many. Can see Just Eat doing alright out of all this.

Might be another nail in the coffin of the high street or more likely the finale of it, can't see how any of the high street can really survive all this, they'll still have rent to pay. Do they have insurance for stuff like this?

[dbilsborough]

This is interesting:

New Look delays supplier payments 'indefinitely'

New Look says it is suspending payments to suppliers for existing stock "indefinitely", telling them in a letter that the stock can be collected by its owners.

It's one way to save money, but a lot of smaller companies might go bust because of this, and good luck sourcing new stock after the crisis is over....

[jockosjungle]

What can they do about it? Are the courts even running? When this is all over it'll be too late and I'm guessing they'll be banking on everyone being happy New Look survived but not to ask too much about its suppliers.

[dbilsborough]

Cath Kidston set to call in administrators

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52172005

[dbilsborough]

Oasis and Warehouse 'to fall into administration'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52285231

[alsemail]

Virgin Australia in administration.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-52363428

Retail, commercial airlines, and leisure I would imagine are in for a tough time ahead.

[Kryten]

Originally Posted by alsemail

Virgin Australia in administration.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-52363428

Retail, commercial airlines, and leisure I would imagine are in for a tough time ahead.

Would not shock me if any other airlines ended up going under. Virgin Atlantic said they need a big cash injection, but only a loan, not a bailout

[basegreen]

500m they said... doesn't seem like a huge amount. They're asset heavy I guess.

[malcy]

Originally Posted by Kryten

Would not shock me if any other airlines ended up going under. Virgin Atlantic said they need a big cash injection, but only a loan, not a bailout

Norwegian Air are almost at the point of joining them. Have been for a very long time but now almost there.

They have put their pilot and crew companies in Denmark and Sweden into bankruptcy as well as terminating the outsourced staff contracts in UK, US, Spain etc. So staff will not be paid in April from those places except UK where they get the furlough money for April and then that’s it as they are then unemployed from 20th April.

So the only staff they have left are Norway where the Government covers full pay in furlough and France & Italy where’s it’s virtually impossible to get rid of staff unless a business is insolvent.

They are only left flying around 15 flights a day within Norway from Oslo to the towns along the coast and far North. These are fully funded by the Norwegian Government as it’s the only feasible way to get to some places and the flights are needed for freight, post etc. as well.

Even if Norwegian survive it will almost certainly only be within the Nordics. Their slots at Gatwick are pledged to cover their loans and debt so will almost certainly be seized by the lenders at some point.

It also shows the low cost long haul model isn’t profitable. Just think back to Freddie Laker and Skytrain. They were the largest European airline by numbers flying into NY. However were already pulling out of long haul to US and Asia in Nordics except Norway to allow more capacity to US from UK, France and Spain. You need the obscene profits from First and Business to subsidise the back of the plane but how many business people will resume flying post Covid-19 to keep the likes of BA and Lufthansa going. They have already let their Germanwings low cost subsidiary go bust.

[malcy]

Originally Posted by basegreen

500m they said... doesn't seem like a huge amount. They're asset heavy I guess.

Virgin Atlantic’s value is the slots at Heathrow as in the good times these sold in the tens of million per slot. However, value unclear if long haul takes years to recover. Plus they can’t sell these to BA on monopoly grounds.

The planes are leased so will be seized by the lenders if the rent not paid. You could sell leases previously and VA’s new Dreamliners have some value but no one will want the decrepit old B747s they mostly still use at Gatwick. Even their A330s and A340s are now considered old.

Had read that post crisis we may never see B747s flying for passengers with any airline again. They are just too fuel thirsty compared to more modern planes.

Also if long haul demand fails to recover the view is only Emirates will continue flying A380s. Everyone else may mothball theirs.

[douglasb]

Ironically, the virus may be the end of 'unnecessary' air travel, in a way climate change pressure could never quite mobilise.

[malcy]

Originally Posted by douglasb

Ironically, the virus may be the end of 'unnecessary' air travel, in a way climate change pressure could never quite mobilise.

Last year Sweden was the only country in Europe which saw less air travel 2019 v 2018 thanks to Greta.

This year it falls for everyone and will take time to recover particularly long haul.

[jockosjungle]

It'll take ages to recover I think, at what point would anyone think about booking a holiday somewhere? I was tempted to book some flights to Majorca next February, but decided against it on the basis that the flights may well go, but I'd be expected to isolate for a fortnight (not much cop on on a week holiday) or there'd be nowhere to stay much.

Half the airlines will probably survive on the basis that some form of airline is needed and the government will bail them out, LATAM for example in South America.

[malcy]

I can see BA, EasyJet and Ryanair surviving of major ones in the UK.

Think many smaller European ones like Norwegian will fold.

[Arthur Fowler]

I'm looking at booking holidays in November and early summer next year with BA. Will do them as package tours so will be pretty well protected.

[shand754]

I'd be very wary about booking any travel or holidays at the moment. If there is a second wave of the virus then I think all travel insurers, holiday companies and airlines have declared Coronavirus a known event now. So this means you won't get your money back and might not even get a travel voucher/free rebooking. Also if there is a second wave in a country you have travelled too I imagine they will lock down very quickly (based on the experience of those countries that controlled the virus better by locking down quicker); so there is a risk of getting stuck.

[shand754]

Originally Posted by malcy

I can see BA, EasyJet and Ryanair surviving of major ones in the UK.

Think many smaller European ones like Norwegian will fold.

Ryanair is Irish

[Arthur Fowler]

From a travel insurance point of view yes. What's the concern about BA giving a refund if the holiday booked with them is cancelled due to Coronavirus? Am I missing something?