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Old 15-08-2020, 16:52   #41
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Can we stop blaming Colin for this?
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Old 15-08-2020, 16:57   #42
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I say we take off, nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
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Old 15-08-2020, 17:55   #43
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It's a shame that it's going, but if people keep on giving Colin flack then I can see why he does it.
Thanks for all your hard work Colin.
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Old 15-08-2020, 18:31   #44
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I don’t think anyone is blaming Colin, and the fact he has received abuse outside of the forums is absolutely abhorrent.

But closing the general forum is cracking an egg with a sledgehammer and taking away what has become part of many people’s lives for two decades.

Ban anyone that is abusive and have a moderation team that can keep any contentious discussions on the straight and narrow. That’s how most forums run and do it very successfully.

These forums have been on a slippery slope for a long time now due to the lack of the above and this is just the bottom of the slope. Is very sad as it could all have easily been avoided, but it’s not Colin’s fault.
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Old 15-08-2020, 19:10   #45
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I just don’t see the issue with having mods.
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Old 15-08-2020, 19:19   #46
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I think if I was getting abuse off forum I would have to think long and hard about carrying it on.
(Appreciate you've had the same Basegreen), that's bloody awful for anyone, and I really don't understand the mentality of someone who would do it (other than assume they had some serious issues)
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Old 15-08-2020, 19:29   #47
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Originally Posted by kohoutec View Post
I think if I was getting abuse off forum I would have to think long and hard about carrying it on.
(Appreciate you've had the same Basegreen), that's bloody awful for anyone, and I really don't understand the mentality of someone who would do it (other than assume they had some serious issues)
Yeah, and I ended up not taking it further when it did turn out to be a mental health issue going on with the person concerned. Have had my own struggles in the past so a bit of kindness probably helped.

But not a lot of fun to try and explain to family why some random is trying to cause trouble due to me being openly Conservative online.
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Old 15-08-2020, 19:39   #48
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What a huge pity ... I've been an "off and on" member for 18 years and have recently started coming back more often as (anti)social-media was resulting in me seeing everything in a very negative light. It's toxic.

I'll definitely miss this place. Colin - thanks for the many, many hours you've given to this.

Is this really over a handful of users?
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Old 15-08-2020, 19:44   #49
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I do like the idea of moving some non-controversial threads. I’m on the verge of buying an electric car and was thinking the advice I’d get on here would be more independent than elsewhere on the net

Anyone making it political could just have a few Tesla batteries crocodile clipped to their gonads?
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Old 15-08-2020, 20:11   #50
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OK - I accept that there is a lot of uncontroversial stuff in the General Forum and it IS a useful resource.

I think I feel like I've just been fighting a losing battle - I've banned political discussions twice (IIRC it was also one of the founding rules of the forums which was relaxed at some point) - the second time brought with it accusations that I wasn't running the site properly by the same people who have said the same above.

I wanted to instate community moderators but some of the people who ended up putting themselves forward were actually instrumental in causing some of the problems. There was also not a varied enough group of people and the site moderation would have been heavily weighted to right-leaning members. I really don't think that would help make things a friendlier.

And it isn't that I don't care about the forums - I wouldn't have put thousands of pounds of my own money into the site if I didn't. I would have closed the place down a long time ago if I didn't. I've just not been able to enjoy the place when certain members seem unable to avoid ******* all over the furniture.

I don't want to ban anyone - it's a small enough community now, and banning people isn't going to help that situation. I thought that people here would be able to take part in debate without it falling into the gaping chasms that it has done frequently. The whole to-and-fro over alleged racism over the last few days has been awful and I can't moderate something that constantly sees people arguing, deleting posts and posting snide comments.

So I'm at an impasse - I don't want to stop people who were enjoying the site and treating it with respect from using the General forum, but similarly I don't want to see countless midnight reports from people arguing and coming in to see the aftermath that is filled with abuse on both sides. I would love other people moderate the site, but I can't put together a team that reflects all sides and similarly I am responsible for everything that happens on here.

Thank you for the positive comments above - that has helped. For the record, outside of the forums I'm dealing with a lot of very difficult things at the moment including trying to protect my own mental health. In the past this is the place I would have turned to but I don't think I could do that now.

Am I really being unreasonable in asking people to firstly not post things that need reporting in the first place, and secondly accepting that people have different opinions and views and that discussions don't need to fall into a constant bait and attack?
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Old 15-08-2020, 20:31   #51
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Am I really being unreasonable in asking people to firstly not post things that need reporting in the first place, and secondly accepting that people have different opinions and views and that discussions don't need to fall into a constant bait and attack?
Are you being ureasonable. No.

Are you being unrealistic when you asked for it, expected it and didn't get it on 243 previous occasions. Yes.

The lack of moderation has long been a problem Colin, you've told me previously on multiple occasions you were looking into it and it never happened and things got worse, and worse....
All decent, active forums have mods. You just need to look over on AVF to see how well run it is and I could name a fair few others. Ones that aren't properly moderated turn into the hellholes of the internet or die.

You have to ban people who are continually disruptive. If you think that's me, you should have banned me or at the very least warned me a few times before hitting the final banhammer.
IIRC you didn't even ban the people who threatened you... and then the few lunatics took over the asylum.

If you stopped enjoying the forum years ago, who's to blame for that?

Your own inaction has been the catalyst to it. If you're not enjoying it because you think it's toxic then it was time to do something about it then, and now you feel it's too late and not worth it.

Keep doing what you're enjoying. I hope your health gets better. I thank you for the many years I have enjoyed on here, all the laughs and lighter moments, the bargains, the opinions and the thought provoking commentary. At times it's been a real lifesaver although I've never maybe divulged that much about what was going on in my personal life. Maybe, just maybe I'll chuck on a crappy old DVD in memory of The DVD Forums. (I will have to dig a disc spinner out the loft, though, and there's all those spiders and I'm sure it's in that pile at the back... those spiders look big... maybe tomorrow)

Last edited by alsemail; 15-08-2020 at 20:37.
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Old 15-08-2020, 20:38   #52
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Maybe try a month or two without allowing any political posts in the forum. So that includes current events I suppose like statues and jk Rowling stuff. And coronavirus when it strays into politics over working from home impacts.
There are enough of us keen to keep the general forum open to keep an eye on stuff and say “look this is getting political rather than factual” and try and keep topics on topic.
And us members also need to create new threads as well to keep discussion going. About holidays or whatever.


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Old 15-08-2020, 20:45   #53
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Originally Posted by alsemail View Post
Are you being ureasonable. No.

Are you being unrealistic when you asked for it, expected it and didn't get it on 243 previous occasions. Yes.

The lack of moderation has long been a problem Colin, you've told me previously on multiple occasions you were looking into it and it never happened and things got worse, and worse....
All decent, active forums have mods. You just need to look over on AVF to see how well run it is and I could name a fair few others. Ones that aren't properly moderated turn into the hellholes of the internet or die.

You have to ban people who are continually disruptive. If you think that's me, you should have banned me or at the very least warned me a few times before hitting the final banhammer.
IIRC you didn't even ban the people who threatened you... and then the few lunatics took over the asylum.

If you stopped enjoying the forum years ago, who's to blame for that?

Your own inaction has been the catalyst to it. If you're not enjoying it because you think it's toxic then it was time to do something about it then, and now you feel it's too late and not worth it.

Keep doing what you're enjoying. I hope your health gets better. I thank you for the many years I have enjoyed on here, all the laughs and lighter moments, the bargains, the opinions and the thought provoking commentary. At times it's been a real lifesaver although I've never maybe divulged that much about what was going on in my personal life. Maybe, just maybe I'll chuck on a crappy old DVD in memory of The DVD Forums. (I will have to dig a disc spinner out the loft, though, and there's all those spiders and I'm sure it's in that pile at the back... those spiders look big... maybe tomorrow)
Whilst somewhat bluntly worded, there’s some truth to this.

Colin.

Firstly, protect yourself. Do whatever is necessary for that to happen. You don’t deserve abuse and anyone that has stepped out of line should be kicked in to touch without a second thought.

Secondly, pick people YOU think will make good moderators. ******* the public vote. It’s your site. Chose some people you think are around enough and sensible enough to look after them.

Whatever happens, thank you for 18 years of daily enjoyment, please be aware of how grateful the majority of the members are for that.
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Old 15-08-2020, 20:46   #54
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Just ban anything politcal or religious, give a 3 strike and your out warning, there are only a few people who are pushing this, and no need to punish all the people who have been here for the last 20 years who joined up to see whats happening with this new fangled DVD format and stayed here because there are some really nice people and some great chats, it would be a travesty to loose all that because a few people are politically motivated to destroy what we have here. I am not a huge poster, but I am a huge reader, and have done for 20 years, lets not loose what we have. Also mods help alot, lets not loose all this.
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Old 15-08-2020, 21:08   #55
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I don't think it matters whether mods are left or right leaning. As long as they're sensible enough to see when arguments are getting out of hand.
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Old 15-08-2020, 21:15   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alsemail View Post
Are you being ureasonable. No.



Are you being unrealistic when you asked for it, expected it and didn't get it on 243 previous occasions. Yes.



The lack of moderation has long been a problem Colin, you've told me previously on multiple occasions you were looking into it and it never happened and things got worse, and worse....

All decent, active forums have mods. You just need to look over on AVF to see how well run it is and I could name a fair few others. Ones that aren't properly moderated turn into the hellholes of the internet or die.



You have to ban people who are continually disruptive. If you think that's me, you should have banned me or at the very least warned me a few times before hitting the final banhammer.

IIRC you didn't even ban the people who threatened you... and then the few lunatics took over the asylum.



If you stopped enjoying the forum years ago, who's to blame for that?



Your own inaction has been the catalyst to it. If you're not enjoying it because you think it's toxic then it was time to do something about it then, and now you feel it's too late and not worth it.



Keep doing what you're enjoying. I hope your health gets better.
You put yourself forward for modding in the other thread but taking your comments in this one as an example, you've thrown a bit of wobbly, seemingly quit the forum entirely and then been generally confrontational... which in my opinion, shows you are lacking the necessary chill to be an objective 'moderator'.

I think most people here are middle aged and have been posting here for 20 years or there abouts. It's surprising that it's this hard to keep things civil. I'm pretty close to 40 and have also turned away from social media. It's all noise. Reddit I do use as an aggregator. Now more than ever it feels like there is a space for a traditional, moderate forum. Familar names and avatars have a value, as even with disagreement, you can track bias and personality. That's important and it gets lost in those noisy platforms. It would be a shame to lose this place.

Politics is a molten hot potato right now. You literally can't buy a loaf of bread without having to follow government guidelines. It will continue to spill into a lot of threads. Not sure what the solution is.

There was a thread a few months back on having a shuffle of the sections, merge areas of low traffic and trying to drive conversation into new more structured topics. I'd say keeping the ban on 'general' chatter for a couple weeks might clear the decks and push people to new conversations in the other sections. A little break and a clear head might offer some perspective, then a few 'tidy up' options may present themselves to funnel people into a more manageable structure and some new rules.

At the end of the day, we are here for conversation, not shouting. The sections are mere arbitrary constructs. I'm happy to chat wherever.

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Old 15-08-2020, 21:45   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scoobyood View Post
You put yourself forward for modding in the other thread but taking your comments in this one as an example, you've thrown a bit of wobbly, seemingly quit the forum entirely and then been generally confrontational... which in my opinion, shows you are lacking the necessary chill to be an objective 'moderator'.
I only put myself forward as it was me "throwing a wobbly" that got Colin to admit, eventually, the site needed some moderation/he needed help.
I don't particularly want to be a mod here, nor do I think I'm uniquely the correct individual to be one but as I started the thread on it, it seemed a bit disingenuous to then just leave everyone else to it after being the initiator of the discussion.

I'm confrontational as this is a place I've loved and it just keeps on declining, with nothing to stop until it hits the bottom and this may very well be it.

I don't see it that "I've thrown a wobbly" here though. The site has kept declining, the solutions are pretty obvious, but they're ignored in favour of trying to keep everyone happy, which is totally unrealistic and hasn't worked at all, for years.

Forums need active moderation. Active mods keep discussion focused and on topic. They nip things before they spill out of control.
Troublemakers need warned/suspended/banned according to their history. This keeps the forum from becoming toxic and may actually encourage new members to hang around and older ones to return.

All I've tried to regarding this topic is honest about how I feel and what I see the problems are. In this thread, the one I started and the one on moderation.

It's pretty obvious nothing is going to change here, Colin is going to ask us, once again, to be nicer and not post and .... and the merry go round continues. I think this is me getting off the ride.

Bye all.

Last edited by alsemail; 15-08-2020 at 21:55.
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Old 15-08-2020, 21:57   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alsemail View Post
I only put myself forward as it was me "throwing a wobbly" that got Colin to admit, eventually, the site needed some moderation/he needed help.

I don't particularly want to be a mod here, nor do i think I'm uniquely the correct individual to be one but as I started the thread on it, it seemed a bit disingenuous to then just leave everyone else to it after being the initiator of the discussion.



I'm confrontational as this is a place I've loved and it just keeps on declining, with nothing to stop until it hits the bottom and this may very well be it.



I don't see it that "I've thrown a wobbly" here though. The site has kept declining, the solutions are pretty obvious, but they're ignored in favour of trying to keep everyone happy, which is totally unrealistic and hasn't worked at all, for years.



Forums need active moderation. Active mods keep discussion focused and on topic. They nip things before they spill out of control.

Troublemakers need warned/suspended/banned according to their history. This keeps the forum from becoming toxic and may actually encourage new members to hang around and older ones to return.



All I've tried to regarding this topic is honest about how I feel and what I see the problems are.
Don't think I'm having a go. I don't know you well enough so I'm not being personal. You are clearly passionate about the place, no problem with that.

But in this case, it's clearly not only about the forum threads. Read between the lines.. It's the overhead, the hassle and the blow back. Modding is handing over the keys and if Colin gets blow back for essentially 'siding with people' who are given the keys, that doesn't solve anything. It just brings more hassel. If the man is clearly on the edge of shutting the whole thing down.... Maybe just respect that. People have their own lives to live, what's the point in having a go?

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Last edited by scoobyood; 15-08-2020 at 21:59.
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Old 15-08-2020, 22:41   #59
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Originally Posted by Ds3 View Post
Whilst somewhat bluntly worded, there’s some truth to this.



Colin.



Firstly, protect yourself. Do whatever is necessary for that to happen. You don’t deserve abuse and anyone that has stepped out of line should be kicked in to touch without a second thought.



Secondly, pick people YOU think will make good moderators. ******* the public vote. It’s your site. Chose some people you think are around enough and sensible enough to look after them.



Whatever happens, thank you for 18 years of daily enjoyment, please be aware of how grateful the majority of the members are for that.
Well put.
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Old 15-08-2020, 22:52   #60
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I like the idea mentioned earlier about a political/current affairs/whatever you want to call it subforum where members could get temporary (or if it came to it, permanent) bans if needed.
I don't personally think banning political threads is helpful, with all that's going on in the world right now they will understandably be the busiest (and most heated) threads, but also for many the most engaging.
When the politics ban was in place it felt "really* quiet in the general discussion forums

Of course all of the above would mean a decent moderation team though
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