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Old 03-06-2011, 12:58   #81
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Do they pay by the minute? That must be why the credits are so long! Actually I enjoy the animations on the discs I've seen so far, but they could be a little shorter. Just saying...
A fixed fee for whatever we hand in mate - so rest assured if you're getting 40 minutes of extras, an hour of extras or three hours (!) of extras and a commentary track/ booklet by me (as was the case with City of the Living Dead) we're not exactly doing the extra mile for the cash.

Point taken on the animation - but a quick google of Naomi Holwill will indicate that her job is as an illustrator and she gets a bit of creative urgency out on these. A lot of people like them, some don't - horses for courses.
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Old 03-06-2011, 13:43   #82
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Actually for all the bad press that Arrow get I think most of their discs are very good and the extras are definitely appreciated, my favourite bit being that bloke with the crisps on The Beyond. I also love anything that Luigi Cozzi appears in, his plugs for his own merchandise are truly shameless! I won't be getting Bird though as I have the BU release, but am looking forward to Tenebrae (hopefully) later this month.

On the subject of extras though, a lot of the clips used seem to have some extra digital noise on top of them (like a low bit rate encode effect), is that purely an aesthetic choice or is there another reason?

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Old 03-06-2011, 14:20   #83
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Actually for all the bad press that Arrow get I think most of their discs are very good and the extras are definitely appreciated, my favourite bit being that bloke with the crisps on The Beyond. I also love anything that Luigi Cozzi appears in, his plugs for his own merchandise are truly shameless! I won't be getting Bird though as I have the BU release, but am looking forward to Tenebrae (hopefully) later this month.

On the subject of extras though, a lot of the clips used seem to have some extra digital noise on top of them (like a low bit rate encode effect), is that purely an aesthetic choice or is there another reason?
I think that's the strain of our budget (or lack thereof) showing through. If you hire out a hotel room to film in or (in Luigi's case) he is working and wants to do the interview during his lunch break in the basement of his shop, you have to make do. It's hilarious that you seem to be implying we get some sort of sizeable bank roll to do these things.

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Old 04-06-2011, 10:27   #84
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It's hilarious that you seem to be implying we get some sort of sizeable bank roll to do these things.
Please check my posts, I've not implied anything of the sort (that comment was made by someone else). The comment about being paid by the minute was merely a joke about the length of the animated titles. I was actually being nice about your extras, I do enjoy them, and was just inquiring about the pixellation effect on the film clips/trailers in them, not commenting about their quality/budget. At the end of the day if the interview is good I couldn't care if it was shot using camera phone. As for Cozzi he always plugs his stuff on all interviews I've seen with him on other labels (going back to him holding a copy of the Profondo Rosso comic on Master of Horror while talking), it wasn't an attack on the quality of your extras, just something I find amusing about him as a person.
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Old 04-06-2011, 12:03   #85
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Please check my posts, I've not implied anything of the sort (that comment was made by someone else). The comment about being paid by the minute was merely a joke about the length of the animated titles. I was actually being nice about your extras, I do enjoy them, and was just inquiring about the pixellation effect on the film clips/trailers in them, not commenting about their quality/budget. At the end of the day if the interview is good I couldn't care if it was shot using camera phone. As for Cozzi he always plugs his stuff on all interviews I've seen with him on other labels (going back to him holding a copy of the Profondo Rosso comic on Master of Horror while talking), it wasn't an attack on the quality of your extras, just something I find amusing about him as a person.
No worries mate - I remain hopefulk that one day we'll be able to hire out studio space to do these things but with the DVD market the way it is I think it's the end of the road for extra features in just a few short years, really...
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Old 04-06-2011, 16:24   #86
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I'd never really considered that MOD, downloads and streaming could kill off the extra as we know it, certainly a depressing thought. Everyone I know still want their films on disc, but the more these technology companies promote these alternative delivery methods then I suppose the chances of physical media dying out become greater. I'd hate to get to point where to get a physical copy you'd have to pay over the odds for some limited edition thing (like a vinyl pressing of a new album), but I suppose that's another debate.
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Old 05-06-2011, 23:14   #87
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The only reason "extras" ever started to be made is that there was a market for it on laserdisc, and you certainly paid over the odds for it on that format, so if worse came to worst it would go back to that situation, I imagine - a collectors' market with prices twice what you'd normally pay.
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Old 06-06-2011, 01:35   #88
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Arrow releases aren't cheap, if you pay RRP, so I think we're sort of back there. TBH, i'd be happier with fewer extras and better transfers - in general, that is, not a dig at Arrow.

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Old 06-06-2011, 08:23   #89
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We'll never be back to the situation where I'd happily pay £60 for a Special edition laserdisc of the Howling or Zombie thankfully! I would be rich if I hadn't ****** away so much money on laserdiscs! Admittedly if you pay RRP on Blu Rays then they become expensive, but most Arrow discs can be had for under £15 when they come out which is cheaper than a night down the boozer or a decent Chinese, so thankfully we're not there yet. Probably only a matter of time though! As someone who's collected DVDs since day one I'm less concerned about extras on Blu Rays as most are upgrades of discs I already have, but new extras are always welcome.

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Old 06-06-2011, 09:37   #90
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Aye, they're cheap enough now, but they werent' when they first appeared on the scene. I paid a fair whack for my Dawn of the Dead when it first came out and most of it was in SD.
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Old 06-06-2011, 11:21   #91
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The only reason "extras" ever started to be made is that there was a market for it on laserdisc, and you certainly paid over the odds for it on that format, so if worse came to worst it would go back to that situation, I imagine - a collectors' market with prices twice what you'd normally pay.
Actually, the premium you paid for an LD BS often covered some of the production costs of the extras.

I was quite irate when these DVD youngsters came along and got all of 'our' lovely extras for free
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Old 06-06-2011, 11:41   #92
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Well, it's a notion worth playing with. Some of these titles are so niche, the maths just don't stack up to expect A+ rated transfers plus oodles of extras. The territorial nature of film distribution also works against smaller releases. Maybe the next/final phase of physical releases are high-end, luxury versions at the £25-50 mark. Or a film version of the Pledgemusic model where for £500 the filmmaker will throw in an exclusive 3 minute DVD based on a sketch you wrote.
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Old 06-06-2011, 12:17   #93
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I dunno, Criterion doesnt do bad at niche + tons of extras + (usually) really good transfers. They are pricey, mind, but when the extras include HD transfers of other full length features (Blow Out, Kes and The Killing amongst others feature other films/programmes) I dont mind paying.

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Old 06-06-2011, 17:50   #94
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The same logic as worked for LD just doesn't apply anymore. Things have moved on, for better or worse. People just will not pay over the odds anymore. Budgets have to be tight and productive - as such, I'd consider technical perfection in extras to be way down on the list. An extra could be shot like the latest blockbuster, but if the idea and execution are rubbish what would be the point?

In basic terms, what I mean is if indie extras need to go down the modern equivalent of independant movies shot on cheap 16mm stock, than that's fine with me. As always, content is what matters.

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Old 06-06-2011, 17:52   #95
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Actually, the premium you paid for an LD BS often covered some of the production costs of the extras.
That's what I meant - George Feltenstein said a while ago when they were doing extras on CAV sets that even on the biggest titles they only normally broke even, so it was mainly a labour of love for the collectors.
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Old 06-06-2011, 17:55   #96
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Ha! The "extras budget" as you put it is so slim I work two other jobs. So please don't kid yourself on that front That would make no difference to anything.
Actually, my point stands even better since you've said that. If budgets are tiny, then it becomes even more important to use them wisely. If they paid you, lets say as a random number, £2000 a go to produce quality extras, my arguament would be that the budget would have been better spent on a release that had a good HD master available, not a revisionist mess of one. I've always enjoyed the Arrow Blu Ray extras, even more so when the disc is up to scratch elsewhere. :-)

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Old 06-06-2011, 20:31   #97
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Actually, my point stands even better since you've said that. If budgets are tiny, then it becomes even more important to use them wisely. If they paid you, lets say as a random number, £2000 a go to produce quality extras, my arguament would be that the budget would have been better spent on a release that had a good HD master available, not a revisionist mess of one. I've always enjoyed the Arrow Blu Ray extras, even more so when the disc is up to scratch elsewhere. :-)
Actually your point indicates you don't know what you're talking about.

See my post below...

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Old 06-06-2011, 20:34   #98
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Arrow releases aren't cheap, if you pay RRP, so I think we're sort of back there. TBH, i'd be happier with fewer extras and better transfers - in general, that is, not a dig at Arrow.
One doesn't take money from the other however...

In the case of Bird with the Crystal Plumage, for instance, Arrow simply had to work with the transfer licensed to them and even if they saved on packaging, booklets, extra features etc etc etc and released it in a brown paper slipcase the film would not look any different from what it currently does.

Each company that licenses these cult films has to work with what is given to them. There is never a case of "if we had more money we could buy a better master"...

And with that I think I've exhausted this.
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Old 06-06-2011, 21:50   #99
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Of course it does if you squeeze everything onto one disc. I said it wasnt a dig at Arrow, I'm talking in general where you get one film and extras squeezed onto one disc that can barely cope with it. Just give me the film.

Going back to Arrow, they'd save money if they spent less fiddling with masters after they'd bought them, and get better sales, probably. Win/win

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Old 07-06-2011, 14:21   #100
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Actually your point indicates you don't know what you're talking about.
Actually, I do know what I'm talking about. It's you that doesn't know what I'm talking about.

I'm arguing that the EXTRAS budget would perhaps have been better spent on ANOTHER release where the TRANSFER was ALREADY up to scratch so we'd have a BETTER DISC OF ANOTHER FILM with EXTRAS.

The matter of why Arrow HAS to use what is provided instead of proactively getting a better master elsewhere doesn't have to have full bearing what I'm saying above. If every company just used whatever they were provided with all the time, there'd be even more sorry releases out there. There's many cases of other companies sourcing a master elsewhere and even postponing or cancelling a release because they judged the materials not up to standard. Arrow themselves have set a prescedant themselves by issuing a corrected The Beyond disc at their own expense with one hand (and, bizzarly, the very disc we're arguing about with the other).

If I am wrong, I do prefer people to actually understand what I said so they can say I'm wrong with authority, and we can go away happy and educated. :-)

Last edited by Lee Rose; 07-06-2011 at 14:32. Reason: added quote
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