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Old 02-01-2018, 14:20   #341
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and the way the film chopped down the resistance to literally a handful of people just made the whole thing seem ludicrous to me.
The resistance as a military entity has failed though. Despite the happy ending of Return of the Jedi it's clear the resistance failed. Yes they ended the empire but only in name as the First Order has replaced it in no time at all. Now again in The Last Jedi the resistance have tried to fight their opponents like they did before but have come unstuck because the First Order are better prepared, better funded and better equipped than the Empire was. So now the resistance as an organised military force is over, so the fight needs to come from those who are oppressed, hence the final shot of the The Last Jedi. So if JJ Abrams takes Rian Johnson's lead the final film should be about the remnants of the resistance inspiring the people to rise up and fight.

The whole point of The Last Jedi is that it's time for new ideas. The same mistakes have been made over and over again by both sides as alluded to by both Luke and Kylo Ren. It's time to end the Jedi (as an organisation not the those with powers) and it's time to end empires/first orders run by dictators.

Without the resistance being reduced to almost nothing there is nothing stopping the next film just being A New Hope/Return of the Jedi again. Rian Johnson has made sure that this can't happen now. I am happy for this. I've seen a similar story done three times (A New Hope, Return of the Jedi, Force Awakens) so I don't want to see it done again.

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Old 02-01-2018, 14:57   #342
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It seems strange after the empire was defeated and the last scraps flee and become the first order to rebuild. None of the governments formed a massive military to fight if the empire came back, you think they would back the resistance after last time. It seems to be just the resistance with minimal resources (its mentioned some worlds supported them or something)

Also the 1st order has the fleet and ships like when it was the empire.

Last edited by fivebyfive; 02-01-2018 at 19:35.
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Old 02-01-2018, 19:15   #343
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That's a major gripe of mine also, basically the rebellion wasn't actually just a small group of rebels, it was systems and planets, etc. But apparently they all sat back and watched whilst they created a giant planet gun.
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Old 02-01-2018, 22:37   #344
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That's a major gripe of mine also, basically the rebellion wasn't actually just a small group of rebels, it was systems and planets, etc. But apparently they all sat back and watched whilst they created a giant planet gun.
The rebellion in the originals was a smaller group of different species banding together as a result of the Empire's actions. However the Resistance in the new trilogy is a group backed in part by the New Republic who are being used to fight a proxy war. Poor writing does leave some big questions

How did the New Republic rise if there were sufficient imperial forces left?
Where did the Imperial forces go after ROTJ?
Did the Imperial Remnant become the first order?
For the galaxy to be in the state its in TFA the first order must have been ready to go not long after the ROTJ.
Why did they rally under Snoke?
Why did the new republic not want to directly confront the First Order and how did they expect a small resistance group to do anything to stop them?
First Order build a massive weapon of mass destruction with little to no hindrance from the New republic but why did they not intervene?

A decent opening crawl could have explained some of this. Which could have been used as the basis for a couple of side movies.

If you look at a New Hope and Empires opening crawls they refer to events that would make interesting movies in themselves. We already had Rogue One based on A New Hope's crawl. Empire's refers the escape from Yavin, which a movie could cover showing how Vader managed to meet up with a fleet and could have an epic land and space battle showing the rebels escaping with middle and last acts covering adventures on a few planets looking for a suitable base.
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Old 03-01-2018, 00:04   #345
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None of you watched Star Wars: Rebels, then? The Rebellion was a tiny in-fighting bunch of miscreants and splinter governments who completely disagreed on which tactics to take.
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Old 08-01-2018, 13:55   #346
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It was on a lot when I was a kid and we played it all the time. I like everything about it.
This for me too!
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Old 12-01-2018, 09:37   #347
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No-one has mentioned the major flaw in TLJ and TFA - General Hux. He's a terrible character, that no-one would actually listen to. I can accept comedy from droids, ewoks and porgs, but Hux is just a bumbling figure of fun, who has no gravitas. To me it is more unbelievable that he could command an army than believing that Leia could use the force to get back to her spaceship
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Old 12-01-2018, 13:20   #348
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No-one has mentioned the major flaw in TLJ and TFA - General Hux. He's a terrible character, that no-one would actually listen to. I can accept comedy from droids, ewoks and porgs, but Hux is just a bumbling figure of fun, who has no gravitas. To me it is more unbelievable that he could command an army than believing that Leia could use the force to get back to her spaceship
Very much so. He doesnt come across as a threat or menace. Just someone who shouts a bit and snarls.
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Old 12-01-2018, 14:12   #349
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Very much so. He doesnt come across as a threat or menace. Just someone who shouts a bit and snarls.
He was more menacing in TFA, seemed like a power struggle between him and Kylo Ren with Snoke - him considering the gun after snoke is found dead and Kylo Ren on the floor shows that the leadership struggle was still there, albeit short lived.
Whereas he is completely farcical in TLJ, which I guess is Rian Johnson messing with the work that the TFA director did in setting up the characters.
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Old 12-01-2018, 14:38   #350
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He was more menacing in TFA, seemed like a power struggle between him and Kylo Ren with Snoke - him considering the gun after snoke is found dead and Kylo Ren on the floor shows that the leadership struggle was still there, albeit short lived.
Whereas he is completely farcical in TLJ, which I guess is Rian Johnson messing with the work that the TFA director did in setting up the characters.
I felt in TFA that character was terribly miscast and didn't improve in anyway in TLJ. It certainly didn't help having the initial intergalactic Family Guy style space call.
I quite like Domhnall Gleeson and I know they were going for the goofy performance but he certainly grated on me as General Hux.
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Old 12-01-2018, 14:43   #351
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Yes it was a little weird, in the originals, it was clear that Vader was the man in charge, this time out you were never really sure who was second in command.
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Old 12-01-2018, 14:45   #352
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Originally Posted by Ravioli View Post
No-one has mentioned the major flaw in TLJ and TFA - General Hux. He's a terrible character, that no-one would actually listen to. I can accept comedy from droids, ewoks and porgs, but Hux is just a bumbling figure of fun, who has no gravitas. To me it is more unbelievable that he could command an army than believing that Leia could use the force to get back to her spaceship
I mentioned it before and how like Matholwch mentioned he was more menacing in TFA. In this he is Mr bean like
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Old 12-01-2018, 19:38   #353
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Yes it was a little weird, in the originals, it was clear that Vader was the man in charge, this time out you were never really sure who was second in command.
Whilst Vader was in charge Tarkin stood up to him and earned gravitas from that. Hux just gets thrown around when he shows any slight defiance.
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I mentioned it before and how like Matholwch mentioned he was more menacing in TFA. In this he is Mr bean like
I apologise if I missed previous posts. I actually found the character terrible in TFA as well.
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Old 12-01-2018, 20:15   #354
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Can't imagine what it would cost to build some of those spaceships. Incredible tax collection powers.

Also like the idea that you can browse a spaceship catalogue or even catalogues. "And is Sir a goodie or a baddie? We have some lovely models in the Rebel Alliance collection this year."
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Old 12-01-2018, 21:06   #355
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You'd think they'd all just by tie fighters, nope we'll design a whole craft just for you few rebels with no cash
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Old 13-01-2018, 19:24   #356
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Finally watched this today. Whilst there were some good moments, I have to say that I felt a little underwhelmed. I'm sure many of these points have been made before but how many times can the rebels run from one base to another? They just happen to have an "abandoned base" up their sleeve that has a working front door and lots of ships. Kylo Ren must be a confused lad; one minute he's determine to destroy Jedi, then he turns on Snook, now he's out for the Jedis again.

Luke wasn't in it enough, Chewie wasn't in it enough and I didn't think that the locations were as good as in TFA. Having said that, I thought that the four new main characters were all interesting and I actually appreciated a lot of the humour.

Not a bad film, just a bit long and quite a few barmy ideas ... and they failed to advance the plot very far.
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Old 13-01-2018, 20:03   #357
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No-one has mentioned the major flaw in TLJ and TFA - General Hux. He's a terrible character, that no-one would actually listen to. I can accept comedy from droids, ewoks and porgs, but Hux is just a bumbling figure of fun, who has no gravitas. To me it is more unbelievable that he could command an army than believing that Leia could use the force to get back to her spaceship
Literally impossible to imagine a clueless buffoon finding himself in a position of such power, especially these days.
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Old 13-01-2018, 20:10   #358
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Literally impossible to imagine a clueless buffoon finding himself in a position of such power, especially these days.
The story takes place "a long, long time ago....." remember? And it can happen again; in 1933 another "clueless buffoon" took power by dubious means and 57 million people died before he was finally stopped 12 years later.
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Old 14-01-2018, 20:17   #359
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He doesn't seem to have been elected though, it would be a funny system to have a democracy. Presumably he got to that position because he is the best of the best, in a company structure that would seem to kill anyone who misperforms even slightly
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Old 14-01-2018, 20:39   #360
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Literally impossible to imagine a clueless buffoon finding himself in a position of such power, especially these days.
It might of helped that it appeared there was no one over the age of 40 in the First Order in TFA. DG is the wrong actor to play this kind of a role, he seems more suited to the wimpy geek type as evidenced by Ex Machina and Dredd.

When he gives his speech on the TFA just be Death Star Mk III fires its just cringe worthy

Now Robert Carlyle would have made a cracking space Hitler
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