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Old 25-09-2011, 11:32   #41
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I put spoilers in just in case someone hadn't watched the episode yet...it's only been 18 hours, and a lot of people might have Sky+'d it, so didn't want to give anything away.

As for Time travel....is that what Doctor Who is all about ? I thought it was a spin-off from Casualty

I don't think simply saying "Time Travel" really answers anything, to be honest. Yes, we all know The Doctor can travel in time, but I just wondered how we get the situation where we get two of the same people at his death at the same time, that's all.
I think time travel really does answer everything here. A younger River Song is triggered by eye patch lady after she gets her doctorate and is time travelled to 1969. An older River Song gets a letterfrom the Doctor escapes from Jail and time travels to 1969.

We had five doctors in the same place at the same time so two River Songs is entirely possible. After all River Song has already been in the same place at the same time when Amy was pregnant.

On the subject of spoilers, if someone is reading through a thread about a very specific episode after it has been show on UK TV then they deserve to have it spoilt. If it were a thread about a whole series and it were was being commented on before it were shown on TV in this country then spoilers are warranted, or where leaked news and rumours are being discussed AND if people are talking about the trailer for next week (I stop playback at ANY show that has a "next time").

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Old 25-09-2011, 11:37   #42
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So how does the Doctor stop River killing him? In an episode called The Wedding Of River Song...
Oh I ******* hope not as that explains


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Old 25-09-2011, 11:39   #43
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Also kind of explained in the first episode when River goes to shoot the astronaut and the shots don't register and she says something like 'Of course not'. She can't kill her younger self, because she'd then, the older River, cease to exist.
Good spot

I hadn't remembered that line. Just watched the first part of EP1 again, and you are quite correct, but that pre-supposes River knew exactly who/what was in the astronaut suit.

It's very clever writing that a simple throw away, one liner from episode 1 can give clues right the way through to the season finale.

Looking forward to seeing how it all knits together next week, and if Steven Moffatt is good at one thing, it is tying up a storyline from all of its bits and pieces scattered throughout the series.
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Old 25-09-2011, 11:47   #44
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I think time travel really does answer everything here. A younger River Song is triggered by eye patch lady after she gets her doctorate and is time travelled to 1969. An older River Song gets a letterfrom the Doctor escapes from Jail and time travels to 1969.
I'm sure you are right. Time travel is at the heart of the explanation, but it makes it sound like anyone and everyone has the ability to time travel people around the universe.

heck, I think I will give it a go....

....it worked I time travelled back and re-wrote my earlier post
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Old 25-09-2011, 12:13   #45
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Was there not a shot in the next time trailer with a sign saying " live chess " also
And does it not look like Amy and Rory playing chess on the screen capture!
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Old 25-09-2011, 12:24   #46
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I'm sure you are right. Time travel is at the heart of the explanation, but it makes it sound like anyone and everyone has the ability to time travel people around the universe.

heck, I think I will give it a go....

....it worked I time travelled back and re-wrote my earlier post
Isn't River a Timelord? That would probably have something to do with why she and the Doctor time travel, although we haven't seen her Tardis (How does she get around?).
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Old 25-09-2011, 13:00   #47
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Isn't River a Timelord? That would probably have something to do with why she and the Doctor time travel, although we haven't seen her Tardis (How does she get around?).
My understanding is that she has human parents (she's Amy & Rory's daughter - Melody Pond), so as such she isn't a Timelord, but I believe that the explanation for her Timey-Wimeyness is that fact that she was conceived on the Tardis with all of that Time energy floating about.

And, I'm sure I remember a question about whether she could regenerate or not, but bottom line is, she is not a timelord, has only one heart, and (as far as I can see) has no Tardis.

I'm not sure how she gets around. All you see is her in one place one minute, then she turns up elsewhere...and I'm sure she doesn't take the number 27 bus!
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Old 25-09-2011, 13:35   #48
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There's also the established idea that you can't have two of the same people running around one universe.
Maybe that's why she is The Impossible Astronaut.....
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Old 25-09-2011, 14:29   #49
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My understanding is that she has human parents (she's Amy & Rory's daughter - Melody Pond), so as such she isn't a Timelord, but I believe that the explanation for her Timey-Wimeyness is that fact that she was conceived on the Tardis with all of that Time energy floating about.

And, I'm sure I remember a question about whether she could regenerate or not, but bottom line is, she is not a timelord, has only one heart, and (as far as I can see) has no Tardis.

I'm not sure how she gets around. All you see is her in one place one minute, then she turns up elsewhere...and I'm sure she doesn't take the number 27 bus!
Did she not give her regens to the doctor in lets kill hitler
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Old 25-09-2011, 15:06   #50
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Did she not regenerate from Mels to River Song?
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Old 25-09-2011, 15:23   #51
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Did she not give her regens to the doctor in lets kill hitler
yes

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Did she not regenerate from Mels to River Song?
yes

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Old 25-09-2011, 15:33   #52
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...Time travel is at the heart of the explanation, but it makes it sound like anyone and everyone has the ability to time travel people around the universe.

heck, I think I will give it a go....

....it worked I time travelled back and re-wrote my earlier post
If you put enough instant coffee in your microwave it is possible to travel through time. It's been known about for ages.
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Old 25-09-2011, 15:53   #53
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If you put enough instant coffee in your microwave it is possible to travel through time. It's been known about for ages.
I tried that last week...Three jars of it....The kitchen re-decoration is coming along nicely
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Old 25-09-2011, 16:01   #54
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I think the first half of the series was very good on the whole but the second half has been quite poor. I hope the finale doesn't end on the cliffhanger we've all seen already.

One thing that I think was a 'mistake' was making Amy too familiar with time travel and travelling with the Doctor - it happened too quickly. There are obviously plenty of places she has been and adventures she has had with the Doctor that aren't episodes of Doctor Who. One of the purposes of having a companion for the Doctor (I thought) was to have the companion experience visiting new places for the first time at the same time as the viewer experience them. That link and sense of wonder/exploration has been broken with the viewer I think, if that makes sense.
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Old 25-09-2011, 17:34   #55
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There's also the established idea that you can't have two of the same people running around one universe.
that's never been the case in Doctor Who though, it happens all the time.
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Old 25-09-2011, 18:24   #56
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And does it not look like Amy and Rory playing chess on the screen capture!
No, it doesn't. The bloke certainly looks nothing like Rory. While it's harder to see the woman, the clothes she's wearing are nothing like what Amy would wear.


I quite enjoyed this episode, actually. Probably helps that I don't have an irrational hatred of James Corden. I did think it was quite funny when the Doctor tried to kiss him, too.

The power of love ending was a bit mad, but it does make sense in the context of the show - if you ignore the fake Cybermen and remember the real ones - and was much, much better done than the similar moment from the Dalek episode last year.

To be honest, I'm just pleased that there was a decent, fun, stand-alone episode this year to break up all the arc ones and the scary ones. I'm sure most kids watching would've enjoyed it too.
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Old 25-09-2011, 18:39   #57
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that's never been the case in Doctor Who though, it happens all the time.
It does, but they made quite a big point of it being a paradox in The Girl Who Waited. I can't see two people in the same timeline at the same place interacting with each other being less of a paradox than two Amy's.

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Old 25-09-2011, 19:24   #58
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In the girl who waited, old Amy only existed because young Amy was NOT rescued. Rescue young Amy and old Amy ceases to be. To have both in one time stream is a paradox.

To have a younger River kill the Doctor and an older River fail to kill her younger self and say "of course" is allowable. She was the younger one of herself at one point and probably remembers that she was the one who did it. She can't kill her younger self or she will fail to exist to kill her younger self - paradox!
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Old 25-09-2011, 19:30   #59
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Ah, I see that. I still don't buy it - as you say, she'd remember shooting her younger self, possibly.



Not sure that needs a spoily, but dont want to upset anyone.

I'm preparing myself for massive disapointments next week.

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Old 25-09-2011, 19:56   #60
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Ah, I see that. I still don't buy it - as you say, she'd remember shooting her younger self, possibly.



Not sure that needs a spoily, but dont want to upset anyone.

I'm preparing myself for massive disapointments next week.
But didn't we just establish that she was taken by eyepatch woman and drugged so it's possible she doesn't remember doing that.

However, given she knows what she did do it does seem odd that she's not expecting the astronaut to do it. The only explanation I can think of is that she wasn't aware of how it happened so was shocked when it did, i.e. she was drugged / hypnotised / etc.
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