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Old 17-12-2007, 13:18   #21
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Having once worked for a company that was sued by Sony, there is simply no way you will win unless you have colossal financial resources. Even if your case is watertight, the legal fees involved in fighting any action, or appeal are just too high.

However in this case, I'd imagine they'll be as desperate as the HD DVD camp to sell more standalones so will probably turn a blind eye.

Last edited by Grandmaster; 17-12-2007 at 13:21.
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Old 17-12-2007, 13:44   #22
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Most, if not all, of the legal cases involving dvd have been about circumventing the copy protection software on legitimate dvd releases for a variety of reasons. Can't really remember any cases of a modifier of players by whatever method being pursued for breaking copyright or any other laws? Not saying there hasn't been one but disc-based issues seem to be the important ones for the software distributors so far.
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Old 17-12-2007, 14:05   #23
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DVD and Blu-Ray are completely different animals as far as Sony is concerned. With DVD they only had a partial interest (it was the format that they released their films on along with everyone else), Blu-Ray IS their format and they have a much stronger interest. They developed everything about it from the ground up.

Their restrictive copy-protection and region lockouts are key to the format and one of the biggest selling points to other studios who are willing to pay the premium that it costs to release on the format - it's worth it for them as they get more control over who and what can watch their films.

If BD+ and region protection are permanently disabled through mod chips and the like, then there is no benefit in releasing on Blu-Ray over HD DVD and the studios will most likely opt for the cheaper format in the future. Sales figures are meaningless this early in the life of the HD formats as they're so miniscule to make the slightest difference - technology is the one and only selling point when getting more film distributors on board.

With Sony having 100% control over how Blu-Ray is used in the wild, there is little doubt that they will act to protect their property and I think it's very very risky for any company to release chips that circumvent any part of Blu-Ray's protection. I expect Sony's lawyers are already at work on sending out Cease and Desiste letters to any company that will take that risk.
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Old 17-12-2007, 14:13   #24
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Originally Posted by LouBarlow View Post
Slight, slight, SLIGHT possibility I wasn't being entirely serious with that figure

OK Lou, fair enough. (although you were out by 40,000 % LOL)

But that is not atypical of comments on this forum. Opinion/conjecture/guesswork is thrown out as fact, and that's what ****** me off.
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Old 17-12-2007, 14:20   #25
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When my UK PS3 can play US Fox releases someone shout. Until then this thread title is very misleading.

Shame on you for getting my hopes up. I wanted to get my hands on Robocop in HD!
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Old 17-12-2007, 14:29   #26
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erm, isn't this what we all did with DVD back at the start ?
Yes, with the modding. No, with the fact that the DVD specification was fixed unlike the Blu Ray that's still being agreed upon. No also with the fact that most DVD players were not firmware upgradeable by the end user - at least outside of the repair centres - or didn't need a firmware upgrade to play new discs. We've seen with some of Fox's latest discs that some players had trouble and needed firmware upgardes. What would stop them "fixing" whatever cicumvention method was found in a new firmware release?
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Old 18-12-2007, 01:21   #27
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Originally Posted by ColinP View Post
DVD and Blu-Ray are completely different animals as far as Sony is concerned. With DVD they only had a partial interest (it was the format that they released their films on along with everyone else), Blu-Ray IS their format and they have a much stronger interest. They developed everything about it from the ground up.
On the contary, Sony had a big interest in DVD, they were one of the first to get a DVD player and titles out along with WB. DVD only came about after they (ie Sony/Phillips) agreed to merge their video disc (MMCD) with the low-tech (where have we heard that before!) attempt from Toshiba/matsushi(t)a (amoung others).

Blu-ray (despite repeated false claims) is a joint effort between Sony, Phillips and Matsushi(t)a with the backing of every other major CE manufacturer besides Toshiba. They have a stronger interest than in DVD but it's a mistake to assume it significantly affects their behaviour. Perhaps it's more noticeable because of the format war but make no mistake they were no slouches with DVD. They may not have got a huge chunk of the royalties but DVD represented a chance to sell millions of players and films which they were understandably eager to exploit.

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No, with the fact that the DVD specification was fixed unlike the Blu Ray that's still being agreed upon.
Nonsense. The BD spec has been cemented for a long time, at least a year probably more. They only difference is that the more advanced features are being rolled out in two stages (profile 1.1 here now, and profile 2.0 next year), but it's not like they're still deciding what they're going to be.

The swedes claim that the chip will still work after firmware updates (and can be updated itself). If it were a firmware hack rather than a chip, it'd be a good point. My guess is they've found out where the region identification is and have bypassed it so the machine thinks it really is a region A machine

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When my UK PS3 can play US Fox releases someone shout. Until then this thread title is very misleading.
You may have assumed I was talking about the PS3 but I can't exactly spell everything out in the title, that's what the body of the text is for. The whole point is this is a ray of light for those who are interested. It is now possible to buy a region free machine, something that has come as a total surprise. I wouldn't be surprised if the PS3 is next but it's probably more complex than the standalones to hack. Perhaps the region id is held in software and can not be circumvented by a hardware hack

Last edited by camaj; 18-12-2007 at 01:34.
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Old 18-12-2007, 07:21   #28
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Certainly, if the price is right i would get standalone player if it was region free
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Old 18-12-2007, 09:29   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColinP View Post
DVD and Blu-Ray are completely different animals as far as Sony is concerned. With DVD they only had a partial interest (it was the format that they released their films on along with everyone else), Blu-Ray IS their format and they have a much stronger interest. They developed everything about it from the ground up.
More than just a "partial interest". Less interest than BD, yes. But Sony was 100% behind DVD, after their input into it. Enabling PS2 to play DVDs out of the box, was to their benefit.

They were also dead set against DIVX. Also other companies have interest in BD tech as well.

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Old 19-12-2007, 21:14   #30
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Didn't Denon announce their first Blu-Ray player not long ago? If they follow the mould of their DVD players then that could be the first multi-region Blu-Ray player, given that Denon are an independent manufacturer.
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Old 22-12-2007, 21:50   #31
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Referring to a statement earlier, ''You would have to mad to buy a stand alone'', I would have to agree, every other day (exaggeration) there is someone saying on here that the firmware on their BD player is acting up and the Java has had problems as well, not many people are complaining about their PS3. And I went into a Sony shop 2 days ago in Manchester and the cheapest BD player they had was £400, granted they only had 3 models in and I don't know if they go cheaper on the internet, but this is £100 more than the PS3 and that is obviously a console as well as BD player.
Just out of curiosity though what is the reason for region coding? I would imagine it is so the companies can control sales, but HD-DVD has completely gotten rid of this, so why don't they care what gets sold to who?
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Old 23-12-2007, 00:06   #32
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Just like the HD-DVD region hack, it won't play all of my existing DVD collection straightforwardly so it's no use to me, or anyone else who wants a single player...
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Old 23-12-2007, 00:11   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief Brody View Post
If they follow the mould of their DVD players then that could be the first multi-region Blu-Ray player, given that Denon are an independent manufacturer.
How are they independent but the other manufacturers aren't?

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Just out of curiosity though what is the reason for region coding? I would imagine it is so the companies can control sales, but HD-DVD has completely gotten rid of this, so why don't they care what gets sold to who?
The key word is "they". Toshiba doesn't care about region coding so they have no reason to push it, neither do the BDA manufacturers. However some studios are pro-RC, it just so happens that those companies are BDA companies. Fox is the main one (none of their releases are region free) and Disney is pretty fond of it. Obviously Warner and Paramount were always region free since it would be a bit stupid for them to put their stuff out region free but then enforce it on Blu-ray. Not having region control has caused delays to New Line titles on HD DVD since they don't want to release a US HD DVD and have people importing it from countries where that film is still in cinema's.

The main reason cited is region zoning protects local distributors from competition. If a company like EIV buys the rights to a film from the US, they're not going to be happy if the US distributor flogs the DVD to Brits. Eventually they'd have to evaluate whether it's worth distributing something that they can only sell a fraction of the units of.
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Old 25-12-2007, 10:02   #34
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erm, isn't this what we all did with DVD back at the start ?
Not me - I waited until there players that could be made MR with a handset hack. I was not interested in sending the player off - and would be the same with a BR player.

When a thread starts with the title "Blu-ray region free at last!" and it's not via a mod chuip, that's when my interest will be piqued.
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Old 26-12-2007, 00:18   #35
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Not me - I waited until there players that could be made MR with a handset hack. I was not interested in sending the player off - and would be the same with a BR player.
You could always by a pre-modded one. If they start making remote hackable players I'll do a "Remote hackable BD players now available" thread for you. How's that?

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I waited until there players that could be made MR with a handset hack
That was a few years though IIRC. I got mine in 1998 and I don't think there were remote hacks until 2000/1
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Old 26-12-2007, 00:42   #36
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I'd be tempted to buy a standalone if it was region free. Are any those players they offer the same price as a PS3? I still wouldn't want to pay above the odds for a standalone, MR or not.
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Old 26-12-2007, 08:59   #37
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You could always by a pre-modded one. If they start making remote hackable players I'll do a "Remote hackable BD players now available" thread for you. How's that?
I expect you'll spin it like this one, but what the hey. Region free (apart from the region it won't play )

Don't worry, I'm sure that when Blu-ray is genuinely region free, we'll get the news from somewhere.

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That was a few years though IIRC. I got mine in 1998 and I don't think there were remote hacks until 2000/1
Probably - I did have a Matsui that couldn't be hacked, for a few months, but then I bought a tv from Wharfdale that it wouldn't work on, so I did without for a while. I waited till dvd players were MR out the box or via a handset.

None of this sending it off to be chipped, or buying it from dodgy chipmakers ********.
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Old 26-12-2007, 11:46   #38
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None of this sending it off to be chipped, or buying it from dodgy chipmakers ********.


For at least the first three years of DVD if you wanted a region free machine that was a quality name like Panasonic or Pioneer you had buy from a pre modded seller or buy a mod kit, or send your machine off. For a long time the only machines that could be hacked via a handset were the supermarket specials.
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Old 26-12-2007, 11:50   #39
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For at least the first three years of DVD if you wanted a region free machine that was a quality name like Panasonic or Pioneer you had buy from a pre modded seller or buy a mod kit, or send your machine off. For a long time the only machines that could be hacked via a handset were the supermarket specials.
You're missing the point - I, like most people, did without MR rather than getting a player chipped. The percentageof people getting machines chipped was probably lower than the current percentage that buy HD. Imagine how few people with HD machines will be getting them mod chipped. I'd be surprised if it was more than a few thousand.
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Old 26-12-2007, 13:33   #40
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I bought my first DVD players from Sevenoaks HiFi - a respectable (if pricey) bricks and mortar shop, so I didn't feel particularly worried about warranty issues or the like.

My only issue with this pseudo-region free stuff - especially with Blu-ray - is that I can see it being child's play for the CE companies to circumvent with firmware upgrades, which are pretty much mandatory these days if you actually want to watch the new movies that are coming out.

Last edited by Grandmaster; 26-12-2007 at 13:33.
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