Go Back   Forums @ The Digital Fix > Gadgets and Gizmos > Home Entertainment Hardware forum

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-05-2018, 08:06   #1
vaderag
Gamertag: VaderAG
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Bexleyheath
Posts: 6,806
Thanks: 342
Thanked 69 Times in 54 Posts
How do I navigate the 4k TV Minefield

I don't have as much time as I used to to research TVs and honestly it seems to be a bit of a minefield of late...

I know that I want 4k with HDR, and I thought I wanted a 10 bit panel because that's what I've read on occasion.

But now I see that people seem to think some 8bit panels are better than 10bit panels, that a lot of listings don't even show what type of panel they have.

And is there anything else I should be looking for? I have a Plasma currently but looks like I'll be going LED or OLED or QLED - what's the difference?


In short - i'm not desperate for a new TV, it will need to be 56"+ (as I have a 55" currently and will want to expand) and I don't have a set budget (other than sub-£800 unless it's something really special) but I want to be able to keep my eyes on deal sites and know when something hits my criteria to jump.

So can anyone advise what I REALLY need to be looking for?
__________________
@GambitUK
vaderag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2018, 08:20   #2
aliman5000
Clown X
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Northants
Posts: 1,662
Thanks: 21
Thanked 46 Times in 34 Posts
If you want a 4K HDR 10 bit panel over 55" then you will need more than £800. And you do want 10 bit over 8 bit.

Personally if I was buying now I would go with OLED and probably LG as they are getting very good feedback from users, plus the screen technology is exactly the same across the range, it is just the housing that differs. So if you get the 'lowest' model (currently B Series I believe) you are actually getting the best bit of the highest model where it matters.
__________________
This place looks terrible in widescreen...
aliman5000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Thanked once by:
vaderag (03-05-2018)
Old 03-05-2018, 08:20   #3
Guest
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
I'm by no means an expert on 4K TVs but have been casually browsing hoping for a real bargain to show up and have found https://www.displayspecifications.com/en useful for telling you what screens TVs have.

Saying that, I still couldn't tell you what the difference between 10 bit and 8bit+FRC is.
  Reply With Quote
Thanked once by:
vaderag (03-05-2018)
Old 03-05-2018, 08:23   #4
aliman5000
Clown X
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Northants
Posts: 1,662
Thanks: 21
Thanked 46 Times in 34 Posts
LG B7 55" currently £1,600.
LG B7 65" currently £2,500.

In a (very small) nutshell 8 bit will give you 16 million colour shades, 10 bit will give you over a billion. It is particularly important for HDR viewing, ergo if you are going to go the 4K route you should be going full blown rather than a half way house.

I have found HDR the bigger upgrade than 4K since upgrading my own set.
__________________
This place looks terrible in widescreen...

Last edited by aliman5000; 03-05-2018 at 08:28.
aliman5000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Thanked once by:
vaderag (03-05-2018)
Old 03-05-2018, 08:38   #5
vaderag
Gamertag: VaderAG
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Bexleyheath
Posts: 6,806
Thanks: 342
Thanked 69 Times in 54 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by aliman5000 View Post
LG B7 55" currently £1,600.
LG B7 65" currently £2,500.

In a (very small) nutshell 8 bit will give you 16 million colour shades, 10 bit will give you over a billion. It is particularly important for HDR viewing, ergo if you are going to go the 4K route you should be going full blown rather than a half way house.

I have found HDR the bigger upgrade than 4K since upgrading my own set.
Looks like I'll probably be waiting a while then - I don't care enough right now to slap that kind of money down (esp given I'll need to upgrade my Xbox to make the most of it too)

It does 'sound' like the 10bit is the way to go, but a) am I really going to notice the difference in standard usage? and b) why are some people touting 8bit panels over 10bit in some cases?
__________________
@GambitUK
vaderag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2018, 08:41   #6
Guest
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
That's pretty much where I'm at now. The TVs I can "afford" don't quite have the features that make them worth buying, plus it seems like variable refresh rates are just around the corner.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2018, 08:41   #7
aliman5000
Clown X
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Northants
Posts: 1,662
Thanks: 21
Thanked 46 Times in 34 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by vaderag View Post
Looks like I'll probably be waiting a while then - I don't care enough right now to slap that kind of money down (esp given I'll need to upgrade my Xbox to make the most of it too)

It does 'sound' like the 10bit is the way to go, but a) am I really going to notice the difference in standard usage? and b) why are some people touting 8bit panels over 10bit in some cases?
Because in short there are a lot of 8 bit panels that are doing an OK job of 'faking it' to keep the cost of their sets down.

And of course there is still an argument for lack of true HDR content so I suppose it comes down to how important future proofing is to you.
__________________
This place looks terrible in widescreen...
aliman5000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2018, 08:50   #8
alsemail
Bibble....
 
alsemail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,850
Thanks: 973
Thanked 654 Times in 377 Posts
Also virtually all 4K TV's have HDR.

At the lower to most of the mid range, they don't do it very well to the point of it not being worthwhile.
4K itself isn't that great an upgrade unless you sit very close to your TV.

So unless you plan on buying a lot of UHD discs, watch a lot of Amazon Prime or Netflix, there isn't that much of a point, especially as it makes SD material look worse.

QLED is purely a Samsung marketing term as they don't have any OLED TV's, it just an LED screen. The new 2018 TV's are just starting to come out but the 2017 Samsungs were overpriced compared to the previous year and not as good in many cases.

Now is the best time to be buying a 2017 model TV as they're at their lowest price before being replaced.
I bought a new TV last year around this time. a Samsung KS7000 which was around the top of the midrange. It does HDR well, having the brightness to show it off.
Brand new, at launch it was a £1400 TV. I got it as a refurb for £500 with a years warranty as it had been replaced with an inferior model.

AvF have a great thread on "What TV should I buy". If you're not a member I'd check it out as their is a load of good advice. It saved me a packet and helped me buy the right TV.

While there's no doubt OLED is the best technology at the moment, you can spend a lot less and still get a really good TV.

Last edited by alsemail; 03-05-2018 at 09:02.
alsemail is online now   Reply With Quote
Thanked once by:
vaderag (03-05-2018)
Old 03-05-2018, 09:21   #9
Guest
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
QLED seems like a stop-gap until Samsung can work out how to mass produce Micro LED TVs.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2018, 09:45   #10
aliman5000
Clown X
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Northants
Posts: 1,662
Thanks: 21
Thanked 46 Times in 34 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShakeyJake View Post
QLED seems like a stop-gap until Samsung can work out how to mass produce Micro LED TVs.
True story and the general consensus is steer well clear.
__________________
This place looks terrible in widescreen...
aliman5000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2018, 10:40   #11
The Bear
Old-gold and black member
 
The Bear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Molineux
Posts: 16,343
Thanks: 327
Thanked 1,507 Times in 475 Posts
My mate has a 65 inch OLED and it looks stunning with proper source material (4k Bluray discs).
The Bear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2018, 11:34   #12
vaderag
Gamertag: VaderAG
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Bexleyheath
Posts: 6,806
Thanks: 342
Thanked 69 Times in 54 Posts
Stupid question, but HDR10 is HDR 10 Bit right?

So, what's not to like about this then:
https://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/tv-and...71060-pdt.html

for example?
Seems to tick all the boxes above, no?

Or equally
https://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/tv-and...59661-pdt.html

or
https://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/tv-and...61613-pdt.html

Or am I missing something and HDR10 is something entirely different?
__________________
@GambitUK
vaderag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2018, 13:15   #13
kanedaa
XBL: kanedaa
 
kanedaa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 15,009
Thanks: 70
Thanked 1,533 Times in 1,025 Posts
No. HDR10 is the most common HDR standard (or 'format' if you like). Basically any modern TV that can do HDR will support HDR10 as it's an open source standard. The other well known one is Dolby Vision but that's usually reserved for more expensive sets as it requires a fee paid by the TV manufacturers (it also has higher specs so is even more pointless on low-end TVs).

And again, using 'format' as an analogy, just like how a 2ch stereo TV can playback DTS 7.1 it doesn't mean you're getting the full experience.

Most HDR content is mastered to 1000 nits (plus 10 bit colour which none of those TVs will be) and that Hisense TV has a peak brightness of 405 nits (to their credit they actually bother to state it, whereas the Panasonic and LG don't).

Back to the format/audio analogy, in the same way a 7.1 audio track will be downmixed to 2.0, HDR is tone-mapped by the TV in order to try and match the video to the TV specs.

Last edited by kanedaa; 04-05-2018 at 13:37.
kanedaa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2018, 14:33   #14
Guest
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Do you need to worry too much about what kind of HDR your TV supports? I wouldn't want to buy a TV with the HD-DVD of HDR which becomes unsupported and useless.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2018, 14:33   #15
vaderag
Gamertag: VaderAG
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Bexleyheath
Posts: 6,806
Thanks: 342
Thanked 69 Times in 54 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by kanedaa View Post
No. HDR10 is the most common HDR standard (or 'format' if you like). Basically any modern TV that can do HDR will support HDR10 as it's an open source standard. The other well known one is Dolby Vision but that's usually reserved for more expensive sets as it requires a fee paid by the TV manufacturers (it also has higher specs so is even more pointless on low-end TVs).

And again, using 'format' as an analogy, just like how a 2ch stereo TV can playback DTS 7.1 it doesn't mean you're getting the full experience.

Most HDR content is mastered to 1000 nits (plus 10 bit colour which none of those TVs will be) and that Hisense TV has a peak brightness of 405 nits (to their credit they actually bother to state it, whereas the Panasonic and LG don't).

Back to the format/audio analogy, in the same way a 7.1 audio track will be downmixed to 2.0, HDR is tone-mapped by the TV in order to try and match the video to the TV specs.
Wow. These terms are almost designed to confuse...! As I said - minefield. Thanks for the explanation!
__________________
@GambitUK
vaderag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2018, 15:56   #16
kanedaa
XBL: kanedaa
 
kanedaa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 15,009
Thanks: 70
Thanked 1,533 Times in 1,025 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShakeyJake View Post
Do you need to worry too much about what kind of HDR your TV supports? I wouldn't want to buy a TV with the HD-DVD of HDR which becomes unsupported and useless.
No I don't think so. HDR10 is the default standard supported by all HDR TVs. It's used in all HDR 4K Blu-rays and is the current standard for games consoles.

Dolby Vision is better and gaining support but from what I've seen it's more of an optional extra (kinda like DTS tracks on DVDs back in the day to keep beating that audio analogy).

It's also worth noting that HDR is all metadata, and Dolby Vision is an extra layer on top of HDR10, so when they're mastering discs / streams / games etc. it's easy to make both profiles so the standard HDR10 profile shouldn't ever go away.
kanedaa is offline   Reply With Quote
Thanked 2 times by:
vaderag (09-05-2018)
Old 04-05-2018, 16:04   #17
alsemail
Bibble....
 
alsemail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,850
Thanks: 973
Thanked 654 Times in 377 Posts
If you're think ing of "upgrading" your TV for 4K and HDR it's realistically going to cost you ~£1K for a 55"

Anything that's new and cheaper won't do HDR well, not to say that anything over that price will automatically do it well.

If you're not prepared to spend that and you have a decent and functioning 1080p TV, I'd stick with it as any £600 TV isn't really going to be an upgrade. It just looks better on paper.

Last edited by alsemail; 04-05-2018 at 16:07.
alsemail is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2018, 07:21   #18
aliman5000
Clown X
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Northants
Posts: 1,662
Thanks: 21
Thanked 46 Times in 34 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by alsemail View Post
If you're think ing of "upgrading" your TV for 4K and HDR it's realistically going to cost you ~£1K for a 55"

Anything that's new and cheaper won't do HDR well, not to say that anything over that price will automatically do it well.

If you're not prepared to spend that and you have a decent and functioning 1080p TV, I'd stick with it as any £600 TV isn't really going to be an upgrade. It just looks better on paper.

Couldn’t agree more. If you actually want to ‘upgrade’ to proper 4K and HDR then your options are a FALD set or OLED.

Both will be £1,000 minimum for 55” and above.

If you’re not prepared to spend that at the moment, a good place to look would be the AV Forums classifieds. People that know and care about TV’s that are selling to upgrade themselves. The sets will be well looked after with plenty of warranty left from reputable dealers - John Lewis, Richer Sounds etc.
__________________
This place looks terrible in widescreen...
aliman5000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2018, 07:24   #19
aliman5000
Clown X
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Northants
Posts: 1,662
Thanks: 21
Thanked 46 Times in 34 Posts
This will help you with the ‘standard’ people are referring to:

http://www.trustedreviews.com/opinio...remium-2937397

You should be looking for a TV that has been certified as the above.
__________________
This place looks terrible in widescreen...
aliman5000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2018, 08:17   #20
Guest
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
For me I'll never spend £1000-1500 on a TV, unless my finances dramatically change. So it's a case of buy now and and not be fully satisfied, or wait till those features hit TVs in the £500-600 range and by that time the high end TVs will have other must have features.
  Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
help me wade through this minefield :( Guest 9814 Mobile Phone and Satellite Navigation Forum 6 16-10-2007 09:20
VB6 IE Control Navigate Cache Issue Guest 21014 Computing Forum 1 19-04-2006 08:36
British Digital TV - It's a minefield! Guest 48579 Home Entertainment Hardware forum 7 26-06-2005 17:32

All times are GMT. The time now is 08:32.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2018 Poisonous Monkey Ltd. Part of The Digital Fix Network