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Old 18-09-2015, 17:30   #41
Stevie G
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I don't know, but presumably a lot of people buy stuff through the Itunes Store, and also those prospective new Apple TV owners could be streaming 1080p x265 movies/to shows, which would make a big reduction in the size of files being steamed.

Personally I never buy from iTunes, but the sooner the take up of HEVC the better IMO.

I downloaded the extended LOTRs a while back. In x265 (1080) they were around 8gb each, in x264 they were over 17gb. I converted one down from 265 to 264 to see the size difference and that we t from the 8gb to around 16, similiar to the ones I downloaded. TRouble was, my i7 laptop could play it back but my Revo with openelec couldn't, so I watched the x264 ones, but it shows the potential for reducing file sizes withouit losing quality.

Edit: gah, ******* new iPad keyboard is stupid, constant typos and bad corrections!
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Old 09-10-2015, 03:58   #42
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I'm buying this, despite the seemingly more powerful Roku 4 and Amazon thing...

There are definitely some games on the app store I'd happily play on a bigger screen (hoping for an Apple controller soon, or at least a decent MFI option, or whatever it's called).

Weird that they have no release date or preorders though.
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Old 09-10-2015, 05:44   #43
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Maybe they've realised is two years out of date and are quickly revising the specs...
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Old 09-10-2015, 07:12   #44
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Quote:
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I'm buying this, despite the seemingly more powerful Roku 4 and Amazon thing...

There are definitely some games on the app store I'd happily play on a bigger screen (hoping for an Apple controller soon, or at least a decent MFI option, or whatever it's called).

Weird that they have no release date or preorders though.
Yeah I'm going for one too. 4K is irrelevant for me, and even the new Amazon device doesn't do it 'properly'. I'm hearing rumours of a last week in October launch with deliveries starting early November.

I'm not sure what you mean by specs 'out of date' Stevie? I'm not sure they are that important on a device like this, as long as they do what they claim to, I couldn't care less what is under the hood. Does it play Netflix? Yes. Does it do Apple Music? Yep. Good enough for my needs then. By the time 4K has any real material out, there will no doubt be a revision, but it is a pointless feature at the moment.
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Old 09-10-2015, 07:43   #45
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As in what I posted above. As far as I'm aware, the new Apple TV won't be able to handle HEVC, so Apple seems to be sticking with mpeg-4.

You don't need 4K to make good use of HEVC. Amazon even stated it in their press release for their new device; the newer x265 format gives better quality files in smaller sizes, so even people on less fast connections have a better chance of better quality streaming.

Amazon look to be moving towards it, Netflix are (for 4K initially), and I see from torrent/usenet sites that a lot more stuff is becoming available.

As iTunes video is Apple specific it was a perfect opportunity to launch their own version of the newer format and give people better quality with smaller streams whilst reducing their own streaming overheads. All those boxes they'll sell that couldn't have had almost half the streamed data with the more efficient codec. Instead they're sticking with an older format that was already inferior to mkv (as in the audio, video formats it can hold).

In the space of a few months we have Amazon, Roku and Nvidia all releasing boxes that have the power to support x265. Apple's is the only one being launched that doesn't (I'm not counting Chromecast as it's a stick). Apple's own latest iPhones shoot 4K, so presumably use the format. To me that makes the new Apple TV out of date before it's even hit the ground.

I don't doubt it'll sell in bucketloads though. A lot of people just want Apple and won't know that it could have been better. I just think it's a missed opportunity.

I'm looking forward to getting a box that'll play x265s, it means nearly half the size of downloads and half the space in my movie archive
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Old 09-10-2015, 08:09   #46
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I haven't noticed any x265 material on the sites I 'frequent'

Is it really that widespread? Seems even rarer than 4K material at this point!
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Old 09-10-2015, 08:43   #47
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Actually, reading in to details on one of the more 'professional' private torrent sites I visit, they are not at all convinced by x265, certainly in terms of quality. Pro encoders on there, who know their ****, argue that x264 always outperforms the newer codec at the same bitrate, and are concerned about overall image quality if companies are going to squeeze 4K material onto disc (or down phone lines in the case of streaming) as it doesn't perform as well as advertised, especially with grainy film material.
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Old 09-10-2015, 08:43   #48
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There's hardly any 4K stuff out there, but loads of 720 and 1080 x265, pretty much a 265 version for all the other versions.

Just a quick search of x265 on IP torrents lists a load of versions of recent releases. Just an example, Pixels 1080p web rip - 3.67GB for x264, 2.24GB for x265.

Another, Terminator 1080p BRrip Dolby TrueHD is 8GB (the audio on that would be big), the x264 versions with similar audio types are 15GB up to 24GB.

I can see some TV shows too, Minority Report, Blindspot, etc.

That's fair size savings, both for streaming and storage, and the few I've tested play back with as good quality. I always convert down from DTS, etc to DD as my Sonos doesn't benefit from the higher quality audio, so that reduces my storage needs, but I always like to store movies even when I've watched them.

Maybe the chip in it can cope and they will introduce it later on. The iPhone 6 and 6 Plus have the A8 as well I believe - can they play x265 video (in third party apps)? I'm just surprised they're not using the newer chips and making it more future proof, but then I guess the TV has never been their main market, and its much cheaper than their phones.
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Old 09-10-2015, 08:45   #49
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The biggest issue I've always had with an Apple TV is that compared to a lot of the competition it's very poor for local playback due to limited support for formats and codecs.

If you want a box for only streaming off the internet it's been OK for the last couple of generations, but I'd have to agree with Stevie G, they've really missed the target on this one. Not that it will stop the Apple buffs from buying it.

x265 is becoming more prevalent and I've started looking to encode some of my BD's using it as the combination of fliesize to quality is excellent. 4K is on the way although I'm not really that interested yet, not until I buy a decent 4K TV for a good price and can rip the 4K BD's.
I would agree with Lou though, 4K Netflix is good, but from what I saw it wasn't better than a 1080p BD, also low bitrate audio is no substitute for BD audio either.
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Old 09-10-2015, 08:52   #50
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We'll have to get the guys in the Amazon Fire and Nvidia Shield threads to do some testing on their new gear....! It'll be interesting to hear opinions.

I'm too used to Kodi to go back to Apple TV unless someone can hack it (I managed to ebay my Apple TV 2 for £220 when everyone realised the 3 couldn't be hacked!) but with apps I was hoping it might still be an option, but I'm nearer to going for the Shield TV at the moment, despite the apparent shortcomings of Android TV.
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Old 09-10-2015, 09:27   #51
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Sorry Stevie I wasn't disputing that x265 is excellent for saving space by performing well at low bitrates, but at the moment, you can't get the quality out of it that you can x264. I'm a member of a certain HD site, that has people constantly doing tests on this stuff, as their goal is 1:1 parity with the source i.e. making a 1080p file look indistinguishable from the BD, and they are reaching the conclusion that throwing bitrate at the newer codec doesn't bring the quality gains you would expect. Results show grain removal (bad!) and banding being introduced, in comparison to less harsh side effects at the same bitrate using x264.

It seems, that x265 will ultimately be used as a space saver, or a way to fit 4K material on discs or at a size that will make streaming feasible, but that ultimately quality is going to suffer, which seems a shame, but I guess that is the way we are heading - already, I watch Netflix more than I do BD, even though there are compromises there in overall quality - I guess it is up to the user to determine whether convenience is preferable to overall quality of the video.
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Old 09-10-2015, 12:57   #52
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Ah, ok. I've not been reading that much about it so haven't seen too much about issues with it, comparisons, etc, I've just read articles that seems to think it's a game changer and I've seen how the file sizes make a big difference, and the few I have tried (a few 720 and 1080s) seemed to play fine on my laptop. Kodi on my Revo wouldn't play them though.

It looks like the 4K blu-rays will be HEVC so presumably they must be confident of getting the quality and size right on those (up to 100GB disks?).

I don't buy blurays (I don't think I've actually watched one) but have generally been satisfied with the quality of BR rips (where a 1080p is around 8-10GB), but if they can get file sizes down without losing more quality I'll be happy with that.

I think I'm in the reasonably fussy about quality category (as in I'll not watch anything if it's not good quality - why bother, you can only watch a film for the first time once, I'd rather wait until I can get a good quality one!), but I'm not anal about it (otherwise I'd insist on bluray or the full disk rip!)
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Old 09-10-2015, 14:31   #53
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If you're "reasonably fussy" about quality why don't you buy the blurays?
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Old 09-10-2015, 14:37   #54
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I don't buy them because I don't want a shedload more disks building up. I already have around a thousand DVDs in boxes in my mum's roof I'll never watch again and don't really want to repeat that with blu-rays.

The future's bright, the future's digital. Unfortunately, the future isn't quite here yet.

As I said, I'm happy with the quality of blu ray rips I can get at the moment. I can't match that with any streaming services, certainly not available to be out here, and there are any ways of renting either. We have Amazon Prime but it doesn't always work, and when it does it's still not as good.
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Old 10-10-2015, 14:56   #55
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I've just bought a new TV and will be buying a projector soon - neither are 4K as I didn't see the need for it yet. Apple TV will be used for Plex (which transcodes X265 easily) and playing the odd iOS game on the big screen.

I was excited about X265 too until I read a few threads with encoders participating who were suggesting it will be a few years yet before it's ready to replace the current standards. I'm expecting Apple to iterate Apple TV much more frequently from now on anyway so by the time I'm ready for 4K and X265 I'm sure they will be too.
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Old 10-10-2015, 15:54   #56
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It'll be interesting to see where they go with it. I've not been able to find much about what TV type apps will be available for the UK ones, they'll need all the main ones but no reason they can't have the all, other than Kodi.

I've read of rumours of a channel bundle for $30-$40 a month, so that could be interesting, maybe that'll include existing services like Netflix. They'd need to have a lot of good stuff in for that price though, and they may struggle to get a lot of stuff that Sky will fight to keep. Things like Roku have a lot of channels, but most are niche and no interest to most, but hopefully they can get all the main ones, ie BBC, ITV, CH4, Sky plus all the Netflix, Amazon Prime, etc.

Personally I'd rather be able to have everything all in one subscription, but there seems to be too much competition and trying to make it as hard as possible for that to happen (see Amazon ******* around with stopping selling things like Chromecast and the Apple TV - it'll be interesting to see if Amazon refuse to do an Apple TV app for that reason.)

What would make it immediately more usable than the older models would be to have an app that plays from any DLNA server/devices, I'll be suprised if a load don't come out as there are plenty on iOS now.
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Old 26-10-2015, 14:25   #57
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Just me who ordered one during their lunch break then?
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Old 26-10-2015, 14:34   #58
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What would make it immediately more usable than the older models would be to have an app that plays from any DLNA server/devices, I'll be suprised if a load don't come out as there are plenty on iOS now.
Infuse and VLC will be out soon.
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Old 26-10-2015, 19:44   #59
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Just me who ordered one during their lunch break then?
I'm definitely getting one, especially with the confirmation of the Plex App being in review, but there's an Apple store a couple of minutes from where I live, so planning to go in an buy one when they become available.
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Old 27-10-2015, 15:15   #60
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That Steelseries Nimbus controller looks sweet... £39.95 RRP
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