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Old 21-01-2013, 15:55   #81
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OK this is going to be be sacrilege for some people but i do wish they spruced up the effects for TNG a bit like they did with TOS. Some of the early episodes needed it TBH. DS9 is more modern so maybe not needed so much
There are some shots in TNG which do make me inclined to agree, I would have liked to have seem some tasteful updating in places.
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Old 21-01-2013, 18:47   #82
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I still have all 89ish VHS's in 1 (and a half) lines along the top of my DVD library so you can see all the picture in the middle, any offers?
Me too, WTF are we going to do with them now???

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I remember S6 of DS9 and S4 Voyager were in shops to buy before on TV, my mate got the DS9 ones and I the voyager ones. Possibly 2 eps at a time for about £13

Now I'm hesitating over £60 for a complete DVD box set
When I started buying them, I got them in Game, they were £7.99 each. They seemed to go up by about a pound every couple of years, so I ended up paying £10.99 - per two episodes! So yes, it crazy to think how much we spent on the entire series, plus it was 15-ish years ago, so taking inflation into account it's even worse!
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Old 23-01-2013, 02:44   #83
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Wish we had some new Trek on the horizon to look forward to, other than just the movie
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Old 24-01-2013, 01:28   #84
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Another huge tick in favour of DS9, in my opinion was the quantity and quality of time travel episodes.

The 'Temporal Police' featured prominently in my favourite episode, so I would love to see a series based on their escapades, also a great way to tie all five series together.
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Old 25-01-2013, 10:21   #85
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Loco Not what you mean but

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Another huge tick in favour of DS9, in my opinion was the quantity and quality of time travel episodes.

The 'Temporal Police' featured prominently in my favourite episode, so I would love to see a series based on their escapades, also a great way to tie all five series together.
There are a couple of Books that deal with the time investigators, I have them and they are quite a good read.
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Old 25-01-2013, 15:48   #86
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The one thing that Paramount didn't copy was the arc storylines, content to stick to the Trek tradition of standalone episodes with the occasional two-parter. Eventually they observed how enthusiastic Babylon 5 fans embraced the (pretty iconoclastic at the time) idea of story arcs which would last entire seasons, some even covering multiple seasons, and they started to incorporate similar ideas into DS9. In fact, pretty much everything that DS9 is generally lauded for can find its origin in Babylon 5.
Who is this 'they'? Berman and Piller developed the series with the change to arc storytelling really being down to Berman being less involved and Ira Steven Behr becoming more involved.

I like B5 but the idea that somehow DS9 was watching it's every move and copying it is silly. They are two shows with similar premises but as the years went on they completely diverged.

I really don't know is Berman and Piller saw the Bible for B5 and used it for inspiration, they've always said that wasn't the case. Ultimately once each show got going whilst sharing similar themes they were very very different in terms of episodes and stories.
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Old 25-01-2013, 16:18   #87
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Sisko, commander of a space station, looked upon as a spiritual icon, taken away by Spiritual beings for reasons unknown. Sinclair, ex commander of a space station, taken away by Spiritual beings for reasons known and to become a spiritual icon.

No similarities there at all!
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Old 25-01-2013, 16:38   #88
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I was speaking in generalisations. I don't think they were tuning in every week, but I think they took some cues from B5 that worked very well for them. The things most often cited as to why DS9 was so good are (1) They made the characters more complex; the Starfleet characters weren't all goody two shoes (and neither was Starfleet itself). (2) They focussed more on politics and religion. (3) They incorporated arc stories. These are all things very evident in B5 from the start.

I only mentioned them originally because someone labelled B5 a poor man's DS9. I'm not one of those people who foam at the mouth bemoaning how "They stole our ideas!" Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, but it's bad form to stick the boot in after you've done it.
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Old 25-01-2013, 16:57   #89
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The most epic bit of B5/DS9 plagiarism has yet to be mentioned........





Thank you B5

P.S. Pretty sure there were some Mirror Universe lesbian shenanigans too but couldn't find a youtube clip dammit!

P.P.S. Claudia Christian is a truly awful actress.
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Old 25-01-2013, 17:03   #90
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Being a fan of both DS9 and B5, I don't really see the similarities as too obvious. While themes and even overarching stories might have shared ideas their execution was handled very differently and I have to say that, in my opinion, DS9 always did it better.
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Old 25-01-2013, 17:04   #91
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Guilty of the "poor man's B5" comment, but I was only referring to certain elements (for instance the Sisko/Prophets relationship wasn't nearly as interesting or as well developed as the Sheridan/Vorlans thing in B5, nor was the Dominion War as intricately plotted as the Shadow War. Also the shades of grey in B5 tended to be richer and with greater consequences, although DS9's handling of the Bajoran/Cardassian stuff was generally on par with B5).

Ultimately B5 & DS9 did very different things: B5 was more like experiencing a series of novels on the screen, whereas DS9 was more of a traditional TV series that could also throw in some great story arcs, so whichever you prefer we're lucky we got to experience both in the same era!

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Old 25-01-2013, 17:53   #92
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I watched Babylon 5 years after DS9 (well, most of it, I need to finish watching it sometime). I never really saw them as being that similar, even though I'd read beforehand that they were.

As for Picard vs Sisko, there was no comparison IMHO - and I don't mean in terms of acting. The character of Sisko was just more interesting, it didn't matter how good Patrick Stewart's acting was, unfortunately.
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Old 25-01-2013, 19:24   #93
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The character might have been interesting but the actor wasn't. The George Lazenby of Star Trek Captains.
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Old 25-01-2013, 20:19   #94
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The character might have been interesting but the actor wasn't. The George Lazenby of Star Trek Captains.
Brooks is an accomplished [and critically acclaimed] theatre and TV character actor, he was excellent as Hawk on Spenser For Hire back in the day. A quick check on Wikipedia shows he's also won awards acting in the Shakespeare Theatre Company, etc.

So I really can't see comparing Brooks to Lazenby. But hey I guess his performance as Sisko just rubbed a few people up the wrong way.

He certainly grew into the part for me, starting off a little stiff but by the time he went bald and grew the goatee (ala Hawk) he was right up there with Patrick Stewart as one of the best actors in any Trek.

That said, this scene from Season 1 shows actors will work for food

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Old 25-01-2013, 20:39   #95
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He didn't seem comfortable in Sisko's skin in those early seasons imo, he did eventually settle into the character. I've only ever caught him in one or two film roles since and he was fine in those (American History X being the obvious one).
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Old 25-01-2013, 20:47   #96
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Brooks does have a certain, ah, idiosyncratic style which, for me, grates and delights in equal measure. Patrick Stewart is the steady hand, playing Picard as more of an authoritarian.
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Old 25-01-2013, 23:33   #97
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This makes me feel old. I bought every VHS tape as they came out along with the Voyager and re-released TNG every month for what seemed forever. Having spent over £1000 each for just DS9 and Voyager they have just gone in the bin No one wanted them.

Favourite episodes include Garak ones, the Visitor and

TNG was cancelled after S4 due to the new release DVD sets being more popular. I even bought the 2 episode and Blockbuster £5 ex rentals with 4 episodes each as well.
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Old 27-01-2013, 06:47   #98
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Definitely the best Trek series. Garak was my favourite character, you just never knew what he was up to.
I think my favourite quote of the whole series sums up Garak to a tee:

"Of all the stories you told me, which ones were true and which ones weren't?"
"My dear Doctor, they're all true."
"Even the lies?"
"Especially the lies."

From 'The Wire'
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Old 28-01-2013, 10:51   #99
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Loco DS9 vs B5

The only real similarity was that they both took place on a space station the story of both differed by a lot and let’s remember B5's bible is not as it developed in the series.

Let’s look at the pilot, Babylon 5: The Gathering Not only did it have a different cast to the series it also had different characters and FX, Makeup and feel were all different and no where like DS9.

Sure the series had similar episodes but then there are only 7 storylines to use. I am sure both affected the other but copied is not right influenced perhaps but if The Pilot is any thing to go by it was never a copy.
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Old 28-01-2013, 12:18   #100
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Is it too late to jump into the debate?

I never watched either show religiously when they were out, but at least initially, I certainly watched B5 much more often. I distinctly remember the episodes revolving around the complete and utter subjugation and slavery of G'kar's people by Londo's people, and how incredibly well that was done, with all the implications therein. Very powerful.

I loved how B5 could tackle these very serious, complex and sensitive topics with aplomb.

I never stuck with it to the end though, so not sure how it finished.

I ended up catching up with DS9 much latter as I got really bored halfway through season 1. I started again maybe season 5 onwards and really enjoyed the large scale Dominion war, and how it interacted with everything.

I really hate most of DS9's random standalone episodes though that are just pure fillers and boring as hell. I didn't like any Ferengi episodes, especialy the Ezri Dax episodes, which were just terrible.

The time travel ones were very good through, especially the one where they go TOS, and the episode where DS9 was just a sci-fi story written by a struggling black sci-fi writer. A quick google finds it was called Far Beyond the Stars. That was a very very good episode.
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