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Old 29-11-2018, 07:39   #281
nutter45
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Originally Posted by jockosjungle View Post



I'm not saying that any of the daft scenarios didn't happen, but they hardly come up to a "reasonable doubt."



Letís just be clear that the reasonable doubt test applies when being tried in a court of law. Itís not the standard for an alternative scenario, unless that scenario itself is being prosecuted. If an alternative is plausible and fits with the timeline and evidence, that in itself creates doubt, especially where the primary evidence is full of doubt, as is the case here.
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Old 29-11-2018, 09:08   #282
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Where did I say this was some mass group consipiracy involving the entire sheriff's dept? I said it only needed one or two cops with the right motive and opportunity. So if Colborn for instance, a cop who we know is as crooked as a three bob note and has an axe to grind, happened to be the guy who discovered the car, him alone could have done it all, any veteran cop woud have some basic idea of what **** they can away with and what **** they can't.
Is that even remotely likely? The one cop with an axe to grind (presumably not a random beat cop, someone senior who probably has a desk job) just stumbled upon the car, alone. In a lonely place where nobody else saw it.

I'm not saying that didn't happen, but I'd guess there is a reason they didn't even try and use such an unlikely scenario.

This case seems to have gone from definitely innocent, to possibly innocent if a weird series of coincidences that are very unlikely happened.

How would anyone ever be successfully prosecuted if they have to prove that a rogue cop didn't stumble upon all the evidence and decide to frame someone?
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Old 29-11-2018, 09:27   #283
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[Netflix] Making a Murderer

Thereís a new witness shown in part 2 who says he directed Colbarn to the car. His story fits with Colbarn mysteriously phoning in the plates for the car, timeline wise, before itís formally found by the remarkably targeted search party . So itís not necessarily a case of him stumbling across it randomly.

Last edited by nutter45; 29-11-2018 at 09:29.
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Old 29-11-2018, 10:46   #284
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Thereís a new witness shown in part 2 who says he directed Colbarn to the car. His story fits with Colbarn mysteriously phoning in the plates for the car, timeline wise, before itís formally found by the remarkably targeted search party . So itís not necessarily a case of him stumbling across it randomly.
So you have at least 2 involved in the conspiracy

1. Witness (Who never told anyone else)
2. Colbarn (Phoned it it)

But how many were on the search party?
If they car they found is then reported to be on Avery's property wouldn't at least one of them say that's not right? or said something to a spouse of bar friends? it all adds up.

Keep going...
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Old 29-11-2018, 11:02   #285
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Also the person who took the call, anyone else in the search party (unlikely you'd go alone) and anyone the person who phoned it in mentioned to anyone.

It quickly becomes a conspiracy of silence.
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Old 29-11-2018, 11:20   #286
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[Netflix] Making a Murderer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spaceranger2001 View Post
So you have at least 2 involved in the conspiracy



1. Witness (Who never told anyone else)

2. Colbarn (Phoned it it)



But how many were on the search party?

If they car they found is then reported to be on Avery's property wouldn't at least one of them say that's not right? or said something to a spouse of bar friends? it all adds up.



Keep going...

Nope

The witness reported a dumped car (not on Avery property, next to Tadychís house) to an officer (Colbarn) and thought nothing more of it. Thereís no conspiracy there, just Colbarnís subsequent actions to suspect.

The search party found it a day or 2 later, on Avery property.

Watch the show and it will make more sense to you.

Last edited by nutter45; 29-11-2018 at 11:21.
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Old 29-11-2018, 14:18   #287
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Nope

The witness reported a dumped car (not on Avery property, next to Tadychís house) to an officer (Colbarn) and thought nothing more of it. Thereís no conspiracy there, just Colbarnís subsequent actions to suspect.

The search party found it a day or 2 later, on Avery property.

Watch the show and it will make more sense to you.
So if you found a piece of evidence reported it as being found in one place. Then its all over the news that the same piece of evidence was found somewhere else. You would not say something to your spouse or brag to friends or try to get some money out of it or go to the defense team and say something.

Or is the witness involved too, now if they reported it in once place but it was officially found somewhere else does that not leave them open to being called a liar making a false report or accused of moving it themselves?

Utter *****
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Old 29-11-2018, 18:25   #288
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Jesus ******* christ spaceranger, just watch season 2 and actually learn something.

Jocko: you seem incapable of understanding that the manitowoc sheriff’s department isn’t a large force and they were searching for the car before the general public. Colborn or any other sheriff discovering the vehicle just off a desolate road near the last place she was known to be is hardly a ******* impossible scenario!

I’m done with this conversation. good luck nutter!

Last edited by Shingster; 29-11-2018 at 18:30.
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Old 29-11-2018, 18:39   #289
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Iím out too. Waste of time!
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Old 29-11-2018, 18:49   #290
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Originally Posted by Shingster View Post
Jesus ******* christ spaceranger, just watch season 2 and actually learn something.

Jocko: you seem incapable of understanding that the manitowoc sheriff’s department isn’t a large force and they were searching for the car before the general public. Colborn or any other sheriff discovering the vehicle just off a desolate road near the last place she was known to be is hardly a ******* impossible scenario!

I’m done with this conversation. good luck nutter!
It's basically a half-baked theory that has to be continually crafted when the obvious flaws in your argument until the point where about 40 different coincidences have to happen. A theory so daft, that the defence never even mentioned it.

The documentary is intentionally one sided.

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Old 02-12-2018, 11:59   #291
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The 'smoking gun of doubt' is her diary and the route she took that day. They have data from the mobile phone masts, this clearly confirms the location of the car throughout. That's then backed up by time and her appearance at her appointments. She drove in a circuit to the places she was due to be. She received several calls through the day and wrote by hand on her printed diary. She could not have returned home... but that paper copy of her diary, which must have been with her when she was attacked, returned to her home to be found and was then hand delivered to the police by her ex boyfriend.

There's your reasonable doubt... Release them both.

But this can't go on like this. To get a decent trial, the cameras need to be turned off and this needs to be re-investigated from scratch by a third party. At this point that should be a special investigations team with no connection to the state. In the UK something so high profile would have probably triggered a task force with members from a number of agency's. I'd imagine if the US had a president which gave a ****.. he/she could setup a similar task force.

According to my TV knowledge, the local law enforcement could call on the FBI to assist.. but the FBI couldn't intervene without the crime having crossed state lines. There is plenty to investigate regarding this incident; law enforcement's and the sheriff's treatment of the county coroner alone should trigger a re-trial, irrespective of whatever the crime is and who the defendants are. Due process was not followed. End of!

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Old 02-12-2018, 13:51   #292
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But he burned a cat!
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Old 02-12-2018, 14:26   #293
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But he burned a cat!
Burglary
Burned a cat alive
Ran cousin off the road and pointed a gun at her wanted her to go with him
Threats to his wife
Wanted his nephew to have sex with Lori while he was in prison
Told fellow inmates about and made drawings of a torture chamber
Assaulted his girlfriend
Alligations of improver sexual conduct with one of his underage cousins that he admitted to his girlfriend as having done.

It's not just about a cat, and I bet there are plenty of other things he's done and gotten away with.
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Old 02-12-2018, 20:01   #294
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What does that have to do with the crime he is in prison for?

He's in there and the real murderer is out and could murder someone else. If he committed those other crimes then someone needs to get some evidence and lock him up for that. I'm throughly confused by these arguments that 'because he might have done something else' ... Some other murderer is free to roam? Wtf..?



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Old 02-12-2018, 20:15   #295
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Heís done time for the previous crimes. It has nothing to do with this case whatsoever.

Waste of time trying to explain that to spaceranger though, who hasnít even watched s2
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Old 11-02-2019, 13:20   #296
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http://www.law.northwestern.edu/lega...an-rivera.html

I read about the above case in a book called Black Box Thinking by Matthew Syed, and thought it held a number of interesting parallels with the 2 convictions in these cases. Unbelievable on very many levels.
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