Go Back   Forums @ The Digital Fix > Entertainment Discussion Forums > Books and Comics Discussion

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-07-2011, 13:34   #1
Ratfink
Cranky ol' dog
 
Ratfink's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: a 42nd St. fleapit XBL: Martyrs
Posts: 7,164
Thanks: 202
Thanked 685 Times in 303 Posts
Haruki Murakami - 1Q84 (1984). Hitting the UK in October!

Is anyone else looking forward to this new novel from Murakami? 1Q84 is based on the Japanese pronunciation of 1984 and is a reference to Orwell's famous book.

Originally published in three volumes in Japan, the first print of which sold out the day of its release, it looks like the three volumes will be available in two books for its UK release in October (from what I can see on Amazon, although it was originally stated it would be all three books in one volume). [EDIT: The US version is in a single volume - link below]

I haven't read much about it, but Murakami never fails to impress, so I'd prefer to approach it cold. The title certainly has me intrigued and critical response has been excellent.

IQ84 Books 1 and 2 - Amazon UK

IQ84 Book 3 - Amazon UK

IQ84 Books 1, 2 & 3 complete - Amazon US

Last edited by Ratfink; 12-07-2011 at 12:02.
Ratfink is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2011, 15:37   #2
Guest 72583
Trusted User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 122
Thanks: 2
Thanked 3 Times in 1 Post
I'm concerned that volume 3 is listed as 256 pages on Amazon.co.uk, but the original Japanese volume 3 is, according to Wikipedia, 602 pages. That's a heck of an abridgement, even by Murakami standards.
Guest 72583 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2011, 16:12   #3
Ratfink
Cranky ol' dog
 
Ratfink's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: a 42nd St. fleapit XBL: Martyrs
Posts: 7,164
Thanks: 202
Thanked 685 Times in 303 Posts
I'm not sure. How much is generally lost in printing/translation/font? It would be interesting to know if there is a word limit, but I certainly hope not. Wasn't The Wind-Up Bird Chronicle hacked to bits for that very reason?

Also interesting is that Jay Rubin is translating books 1 & 2, while Philip Gabriel is doing the third.

Last edited by Ratfink; 09-07-2011 at 16:12.
Ratfink is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2011, 11:27   #4
ajr90
Gamertag: Holden Carver
 
ajr90's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,251
Thanks: 28
Thanked 36 Times in 22 Posts
This roundtable between two translators of Murakami and one editor offers, among other insights, some inside perspective on the abridgement of WIND-UP BIRD CHRONICLE. While one's milage may vary, it does suggest that 'hacked to bits' is a bit of an overstatement.

http://www.randomhouse.com/knopf/aut.../complete.html

I couldn't find out anything about whether 1Q84 will be similarly abridged or not.
__________________
Harsin: "Sick of being held back by THE MAN in Westminster, I dreamt of a city full of social decay, where charity shops and Starbucks could coexist and chavs could run free. I dreamt of... Swindon."
ajr90 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2011, 11:50   #5
Guest 72583
Trusted User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 122
Thanks: 2
Thanked 3 Times in 1 Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratfink View Post
Also interesting is that Jay Rubin is translating books 1 & 2, while Philip Gabriel is doing the third.
Yes, I wondered about this, given that Rubin considers their translation styles very different, I imagine this is a matter of expediency.

Whilst I'm very much looking forward to the book/s, I'm quite wary, as well as annoyed that Harvill Secker have clearly chosen to split the novels to make money, notwithstanding their feeble claims that they are copying the form of the original Japanese publication. Both volumes from Amazon UK are pre-ordering with free postage for a total of £25, The single volume with basic paid postage from Amazon US is £18.

Plus no Kindle version announced. Not uncommon, but also annoying.
Guest 72583 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2011, 12:19   #6
Ratfink
Cranky ol' dog
 
Ratfink's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: a 42nd St. fleapit XBL: Martyrs
Posts: 7,164
Thanks: 202
Thanked 685 Times in 303 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajr90 View Post
This roundtable between two translators of Murakami and one editor offers, among other insights, some inside perspective on the abridgement of WIND-UP BIRD CHRONICLE. While one's milage may vary, it does suggest that 'hacked to bits' is a bit of an overstatement.

http://www.randomhouse.com/knopf/aut.../complete.html

I couldn't find out anything about whether 1Q84 will be similarly abridged or not.
25,000 words, all due to the publisher putting a word count in place, which is my main point of contention. If the average paperback is, say, 350 words, then we're looking at 71 pages of missing text. Granted I'd read The Wind-Up Bird Chronicle, and thoroughly enjoyed it, before knowing it had been heavily edited.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Rubin
I did virtually all the cutting on WIND-UP, but I would have done none at all if Knopf hadn't told Haruki that the book was too long and would have to be cut by some number of words (I think it was around 25,000 words). Afraid that they would hire some freelancer who could wreak havoc on the novel, and filled with a megalomaniac certainty that I knew every word in the book--maybe better than the author himself--after having translated all three hefty volumes, I decided to forestall the horror by submitting my manuscript in two versions: complete, and cut. Knopf took my cut version pretty much as is (which no doubt saved them a lot of work and expense; like Phil, I was not recognized as an editor in anything other than the notice in the front of the book).
And Dame Hedwig - I concur, very frustrating. I guess the US release is the one to go for then!
Ratfink is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2011, 11:45   #7
SimonI
Rude Mechanical
 
SimonI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Aberdeen
Posts: 6,358
Thanks: 272
Thanked 280 Times in 187 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajr90 View Post
This roundtable between two translators of Murakami and one editor...
Thanks for that link - that was really fascinating. Think I'll preorder the 900-page US single volume here... though separate volumes might be easier on the wrists
__________________
It's turtles all the way down!
All things prog | Yes World | DVD Basen | Home | MX-5 | Nausicaa | ET | My Criterion
SimonI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2011, 11:49   #8
Guest 72583
Trusted User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 122
Thanks: 2
Thanked 3 Times in 1 Post
Am I correct in thinking that if I wait 'til it's in stock at Am US, I can pay in good British money and avoid CC conversion charges?
Guest 72583 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2011, 11:54   #9
Ratfink
Cranky ol' dog
 
Ratfink's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: a 42nd St. fleapit XBL: Martyrs
Posts: 7,164
Thanks: 202
Thanked 685 Times in 303 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dame Hedwig View Post
Am I correct in thinking that if I wait 'til it's in stock at Am US, I can pay in good British money and avoid CC conversion charges?
That's right! And that's what I'll be doing - I'm not going with the rip-off Britain split volume versions.

I've added a link for the US version to the OP.
Ratfink is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2011, 11:56   #10
Guest 72583
Trusted User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 122
Thanks: 2
Thanked 3 Times in 1 Post
I'm also willing to bet the actual book will be better quality than the last few Harvill Murakami's which feel cheap to me.
Guest 72583 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2011, 14:00   #11
Guest 58450
Poke Us White Face
 
Guest 58450's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: London
Posts: 7,186
Thanks: 38
Thanked 12 Times in 10 Posts
They cut his work by loads because they think it won't sell? Huh?

I could maybe understand with a first novel or two but once someone's that well-known what does it matter?
Guest 58450 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2011, 16:18   #12
SimonI
Rude Mechanical
 
SimonI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Aberdeen
Posts: 6,358
Thanks: 272
Thanked 280 Times in 187 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dame Hedwig View Post
Am I correct in thinking that if I wait 'til it's in stock at Am US, I can pay in good British money and avoid CC conversion charges?
Oh - is that why you don't always get the option? I use a Nationwide card anyway... which reminds me, the last time I used it I opted for dollars, having noted the £, so I can check which comes out cheaper. Must do that
SimonI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2011, 19:16   #13
ajr90
Gamertag: Holden Carver
 
ajr90's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,251
Thanks: 28
Thanked 36 Times in 22 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheoGB View Post
They cut his work by loads because they think it won't sell? Huh?

I could maybe understand with a first novel or two but once someone's that well-known what does it matter?
I didn't see anywhere that said the reason Knopf asked for cuts in WIND-UP BIRD CHRONICLE was because they thought it wouldn't sell. Leaving aside the fact that is is indeed harder to sell larger books (they're less of an attractive impulse purchase, they represent a poor value footprint for bookshops), there's also the fact that it costs so much to produce a book of around size X and then it costs so much more to produce of a book of around size Y. And this amount can be significant.

On top of which, there's also a physical limit on the maximum size each kind of binding can be. If it's up to X pages, it can be bound affordably, but at Y pages a much more expensive binding has to be used. I suspect this would've been the main reason for wanting cuts to WIND-UP, so that they could stay within production budgets.

To take a couple of examples I know of: Brandon Sanderson's volumes in Robert Jordan's "Wheel of Time" series were split up in more volumes than originally intended, as he wrote so much they couldn't physically have published them if they hadn't split them up. And with Charlie Stross's "Merchant Princes" series, Charlie wrote the first book and it turned out to be 200,000 words, so his publishers had him split it into two books so they could publish it in the format they preferred.

Which is a long way of saying that I'm not a fan of the fact WIND-UP was edited, but I can understand why they did so. Also in mitigation is the fact that Murakami clearly approves of the translation, as he could've refused to publish it edited by didn't. And finally, all work in translation is changed in some form. It's the nature of the beast. And having moved in manga circles for a period of my life, I can assure you I've seen more translation arguments than anyone ever needs to in their lifetime.

The bottom line is, when you read the work in English, you're reading the work as translated and interpreted by someone else. So you're getting their view of it (which may be edited/abridged/localised). If you want to read the work and be sure you're getting a true sense of it... learn the language and read the original.
ajr90 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2011, 19:58   #14
Guest 58450
Poke Us White Face
 
Guest 58450's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: London
Posts: 7,186
Thanks: 38
Thanked 12 Times in 10 Posts
If you read Gary's comments he says

Quote:
My reaction was that it couldn't be published successfully at such length, which indeed would do harm to Haruki's cause in this country
That said, reading over more closely implies these were probably 25,000 words that would have been cut if an American editing technique had been applied originally, or at least a large chunk of them were.
Guest 58450 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2011, 20:26   #15
ajr90
Gamertag: Holden Carver
 
ajr90's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,251
Thanks: 28
Thanked 36 Times in 22 Posts
Yeah, I saw that comment. But "couldn't be published successfully at such length" does not necessarily mean "it won't sell." As I said in my post above, it encompasses a whole host of things which could make publishing WIND-UP in its full length unsuccessful for the publisher even if they sell as many copies of it as their previous Murakami books. Everyone remembers that New Order lost money every time they sold a copy of "Blue Monday" because the single was so expensive to make, for example. So it's more than likely, to me, to be something along those lines; that amount it would cost to produce, per copy, would be large enough that they wouldn't make enough money, per copy, for it to be worth their while.

Obviously this is largely speculation on my part (although I do work in a related field, so it is to some degree informed speculation). And don't discount the fact that if a bookstore has the choice of 10 books on the shelf at $10 each or 20 books on the shelf at $10 each, they'll want the latter, so there's a bias against large books there.

Perhaps if they'd sat on WIND-UP until now, then they would've been able to publish it at full length, like with 1Q84, as the market is here now when it (apparently) wasn't before. Indeed, given that a full-length translation was provided to the publisher, possibly a letter-writing campaign could persuade them to put that out after all (better late than never).

Anyway, I'm probably boring everyone silly now, so I'll shut up about it this point.


Getting back to the book at hand, I must admit, I'm tempted to get the UK edition, largely because I can't comfortably hold mammoth-sized books like the US one-volume edition. I will of course wait until it's published to see if it is indeed abridged in any form, but but gut feeling is that it will be more or less identical to the American text (other than Anglicisation of some of the more American translations, which isn't unusual).
__________________
Harsin: "Sick of being held back by THE MAN in Westminster, I dreamt of a city full of social decay, where charity shops and Starbucks could coexist and chavs could run free. I dreamt of... Swindon."
ajr90 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-07-2011, 07:21   #16
SimonI
Rude Mechanical
 
SimonI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Aberdeen
Posts: 6,358
Thanks: 272
Thanked 280 Times in 187 Posts
This on Amazon suggests why they are doing two volumes:

Quote:
Haruki Murakami is an international phenomenon. When Books One and Two of his latest masterpiece, 1Q84, were published in Japan, they sold out in one day, and the critical acclaim that ensued was reported all over the globe. Readers were transfixed by the mesmerising story of Aomame and Tengo and the strange parallel universe they inhabit. Then, one year later, to the surprise and delight of his readers, Murakami published an unexpected Book Three, bringing the story to a close.

In order to reflect the experience of 1Q84’s first readers, Harvill Secker is publishing Books One and Two in one beautifully designed volume and Book Three in a separate edition.
Might be easier to read...
SimonI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-07-2011, 07:25   #17
Guest 72583
Trusted User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 122
Thanks: 2
Thanked 3 Times in 1 Post
Ha! And they'll burn the extra money because they didn't want it anyway and it'll just clutter up the office.

Thank you Harvill for putting my reading experience before any sordid profit-driven motives. You are an inspiration to us all.
Guest 72583 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-07-2011, 19:57   #18
ajr90
Gamertag: Holden Carver
 
ajr90's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,251
Thanks: 28
Thanked 36 Times in 22 Posts
The Millions has the first paragraph of 1Q84, as translated by Jay Rubin, if anyone wants to whet their appetite by reading it.

Last edited by ajr90; 18-07-2011 at 19:58. Reason: doh
ajr90 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-09-2011, 14:07   #19
SimonI
Rude Mechanical
 
SimonI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Aberdeen
Posts: 6,358
Thanks: 272
Thanked 280 Times in 187 Posts
Pre-order prices for this on Amazon UK are now cheaper than the one volume from the States:

Books 1 & 2 £10.80

Book 3 £8.39

I'm going to switch my order to the UK editions - going to be less painful on the wrists
SimonI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-09-2011, 17:07   #20
Guest 72583
Trusted User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 122
Thanks: 2
Thanked 3 Times in 1 Post
Also Kindle versions available, cheaper than all physical options. I just hope it's properly formatted, too many recent high profile Kindle releases suffering from unjustified text which drives me potty.
Guest 72583 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Explorer.exe hitting 100% cpu when i right click vaderag Computing Forum 5 12-01-2007 21:49

All times are GMT. The time now is 14:59.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2018 Poisonous Monkey Ltd. Part of The Digital Fix Network