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Old 03-02-2016, 20:51   #1
Shingster
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See if we can solve this: New Amp, weird HDMI Video issue

I've recently upgraded my rickety old Denon AVR 2310 (a 2D only amp) to a new Denon AVR-X2200W receiver, everything seems to be swell except for one massive issue: When I turn my projector on at the start of the day I get this weird flickering video issue that kicks in about 10mins after the projector is turned on and gets increasingly more frequent across the next 5-10min until the image goes completely blank, then I simply switch my source (from PC to Digital Freeview for instance) and back and the video then works fine for the reast of the day. This is athe weird part, it usually only happens once a day, sometimes twice, no matter how many times I turn my projector on and off in that day.

Here's a brief clip of my setup going into flicker mode:



Now for what I've done to try and figure out the fault:

1. The amp is connected to a projector via 10m Thatcable 1.4 bells and whistles HDMI lead. I have three devices connected to the amp via HDMI: my PC, my Oppo 105 BD, my Humax digital freeview box. When the flickering starts i get the flickering across all three sources until the flickering stops. Sometimes switching sources can stop the flickering before it reaches that completely black flatline, but more often than not I have to get to that flatline and THEN change sources.

2. I have reverted back to my old Denon AVR-2310, there is no flicker at all with this receiver, it's only the new receiver that has the issue

3. Because it's only the new receiver that has the flicker, I decided that it was faulty and Richer Sounds promptly replaced it today. It's only now that I have my 2nd AVR-X2200W that I can now rule out the receiver as the source of the problem.

The only thing I can think of is that it's a weird compatibility issue with either my projector (Sony VPL-HW50ES) or the 10M HDMI lead and this amp, but I don't understand how that's possible, surely a digital signal is a digital signal? If the HDMI lead and Projector work with one reciever, why don't they work with a newer one from the same manufacturer.

I'm not sure how to proceed with Richer Sounds either, I have in all liklehood just sent back a perfectly healthy amp that was in my posession for two week while I worked on diagnosing the issue!
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Old 04-02-2016, 13:20   #2
ian turner
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Try turning the projector on first, wait a bit then turn the denon on then turn the freeview box on and see if that helps.
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Old 05-02-2016, 05:12   #3
LouBarlow
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Let's start at the beginning - have you updated the firmware on the amp?
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Old 05-02-2016, 06:47   #4
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Not updated the firmware (not sure if there is one tbh as it's a fairly recent model I think) and not tried turning projector on first yet, but today I tried switching over from the ARC out port to the non-ARC out port. I remember that not making much of a difference with my first 2200W but so far it has made a difference with this new one.

If the problems persist then I'll defitely try your suggestions, thanks! That's the thing with this issue, I only have one or two windows of opportunity each day to experiment with diffferent fixes, so it's a pretty slow process.
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Old 05-02-2016, 11:18   #5
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My suggestion comes from a thread where the issues seemed to be related to hdmi handshaking where the tv took too long to boot up so starting it up first solved the problem. Mind you some of the posters ended up having an hdmi board replaced.
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Old 05-02-2016, 16:36   #6
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I get something similar from my Tivo to the TV sometimes too (via HDMI amp). I find reselecting the screen resolution in the Tivo sorts it, and it stays ok for months. Then randomly comes back :/
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Old 06-02-2016, 17:34   #7
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Since switching to the non-ARC port I've gone two days without any flicker issues, and that's a first. Hopefully my issue is sorted but if not I have a few avenues to explore thanks to your advice chaps!
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Old 07-02-2016, 23:12   #8
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Well, I've just been watching a film on my BD player and when I switched back to my PC output the flickering started again! Looks like I've still got issues (my BD player's knackered as well, not sure if the two are related though).

Anyway I've just updated the firmware (luckily there was a brand new update posted two days back) so I'll try that then move on to turning the projector on first, although I'm not confident that's a solution given I'm getting flickering from just switching sources now.
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Old 10-02-2016, 20:09   #9
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Yeah this ******* thing is still happening, it's just not happening when I first turn my projector on anymore and less frequently, since switching to the non-ARC port it's only happened twice, but I was just 1hr into a film and it started happening out the blue. I think my only option now is to make sure it's not my HDMI lead, which means I've got to fork out at least Ł35 on the off chance that it's not that!

I'm not sure what my options are if it's not my lead that's at fault, because then it's obviously my hardware, but the fact I've had this fault with two DENON 2200W cannot be a coincidence surely? Legally can I actually ask for a refund/exchange because the DENON 2200W isn't compatible with a Sony VPL-HW50ES amp?
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Old 10-02-2016, 20:22   #10
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When you switched back to the old amp, did you give it enough time to demonstrate whether the issue was present with it? I mean, you say your new amp was fine for a while, maybe even with your old one you would get the same issue? My point is, maybe your projector is faulty?
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Old 10-02-2016, 21:26   #11
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Yeah I switched back for a few days until I got a replacement solved. That amp is dead now though (the fault that caused me to buy a new amp finally killed it, but wasn't HDMI related) so I can't go back to it again. Never had a problem with my old amp and HDMI handshaking or any HDMI issues, but I can't really rule the projector out either at this point.
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Old 11-02-2016, 15:10   #12
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Could you not cut the amp out of the equation entirely and connect one of your sources direct to the PJ? I realise you wouldn't get any sound or whatever, but you could leave it running for a bit just as a test - I know PJ owners are a bit edgy about wasting bulb hours but it's probably the only way to rule it out as the culprit.
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Old 11-02-2016, 22:43   #13
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I had it hooked up directly to my BD player and later PC a year or two back with no problems, but that was then. I do need to get more pro-active with testing my PJ, I've just switched over to the 2nd HDMI port on the unit so we'll see if that changes anything, if not I have a DVI>HDMI lead that I used to use to connect my PC directly to the PJ before I got my first Gfx card with HDMI out, so switching over to that might be worth a go.
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Old 13-02-2016, 03:02   #14
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Same problems with the 2nd HDMI port, gonna have to juggle my various HDMI leads over the weekend to test my projector sans receiver.
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Old 01-05-2016, 21:21   #15
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Just thought I'd provide an update on this to see if anyone has experienced problems with HDMI out via a PC on their displays:

I've been chugging along without really addressing the issue, mostly because I stopped using my PC so much after finishing Fallout 4 Anyway I went a month with no incidents and though it might have resolved itself, but nope it came back with a vengeance a couple of months back.

Since then I've noticed something very specific about the problem: It only ever starts when I have my amp assigned to my PC, so watching something on my PC, then after a few minutes (sometimes 10-20mins, sometimes over 2hrs) the flickering starts. Once it starts and I switch to another output (digital TV or BD player) then the flickering continues on these outputs - But what I've noticed now is that if I stay on these outputs (so stick to Digital TV for instance) then the flickering stops pretty quickly. I've also observed that the flickering never starts if I'm watching on the Digital TV or BD player outputs.

So basically it's my PC output that's triggering the issue, and it's only on my PC output that it continues indefinitely. When the flickering gets really bad I tend to switch over to Digital TV and wait a few secs for it to stop, then switch back to PC. Sometimes this stops the flickering on my PC output, sometimes the flickering re-commences. It really does boil down to random chance.

I've recently purchased another 7m HDMi lead and over the last couple of days I've gone about replacing all my HDMI leads to see if any are the root of the problem: They aren't, I'm getting the flickering with the new lead as well.

So now I have it down to three possible causes:

1. Denon Receiver. This is an issue that I've only had since getting the new receiver, the problem with this theory is that I have now owned two receivers and they've both had the fault.

2. Sony VPL-Hw10 projector. Can't rule this out yet but now I have an extra HDMI lead I can at least try the receiver through a different display and try hooking my PC directly to the projector without using the receiver.

3. GTX 980ti Graphics Card. I'm beginning to think this might by the faulty link in the chain. The flickering only starts when watching something on my PC, and as I type this lengthy post I have reverted back to my old (and incredibly slow) PC, which so far has not exhibited any flickering issues. I've done a search on 980ti and flickering issues and it seems there have been problems with Nvidia cards randomly having problems with completely random models of monitor, so it's beginning to sound like it might just be my card not liking my receiver.

Last edited by Shingster; 01-05-2016 at 21:23.
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Old 02-05-2016, 05:04   #16
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Well I chalked up almost 4hrs of projector time with my old PC yesterday with now flickering issues at all. That's the first time I've managed that in months.

Another problem I'm having lately is the audio not loading or something through the HDMI, I keep having to restart my PC, sometimes up to three times just to get the ******* audio to kick in. I had this problem before only intermittently , maybe once or twice a month. Now it's happening almost every second time I turn my PC on! Just had to restart the PC to apply an update and the audio is down, so back to the restart....

Gotta be the graphics card. I've already updated my driver twice since having this new amp, but I'll update again and see if that can help.I'm old school when updating graphics drivers as well, I do it in safe mode to completely remove the old drivers.
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Old 29-06-2016, 00:44   #17
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After being fairly confident my graphics card was the culprit I decided it was time to contact ASUS, but wanted to make absolutely sure I was right so I've gone back to my old PC for a few days this time instead of just a few hours. Today the flickering started on my old PC (which has an old radeon graphics card).

So there you go. There's obviously something seriously wrong with these new Denon amps imo, some sort of handshaking issue that may be linked to Sony projectors.

Not sure how I'm gonna proceed here tbh, it's taken me months to narrow it down to my receiver or possibly an outside chance of it being my projector.
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Old 29-06-2016, 06:59   #18
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Sell it and move on?
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Old 29-06-2016, 23:47   #19
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The problem is that I can't really sell an amp in good faith that might be faulty, or at least I can't be sure that the guy who buys it won't run into the handshaking issue. It's still under warranty so I guess my only option is to continue along that path and see what Denon can do.

Last edited by Shingster; 29-06-2016 at 23:48.
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Old 01-07-2016, 15:26   #20
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Missed / cant see if you tried the firmware update

I have same amp (never had any issues) but not long had mine and even then there was a firmware update available - so worth checking, the amp is reported to have some issues on various owner forums of having issues with being updated over internet so you may need to manually download new firmware

have you tried connecting to the 2nd HDMI out on the Amp ?
I use it to connect to a separate HDMI input on my TV so I can run my XBOX in game mode, may be worth a try

Have you turned off all video processing from the amp allowing everything just to passthrough, so you dont get any onscreen volume and menus dont overlay ?

What resolution are you sending into the Amp ? does it have any effect if you change this ?

Last edited by dunkle; 01-07-2016 at 15:27.
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