Go Back   Forums @ The Digital Fix > Entertainment Discussion Forums > Sports Forum

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-02-2012, 10:05   #301
Xeon007
Trusted User
 
Xeon007's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: East Northants
Posts: 3,679
Thanks: 66
Thanked 89 Times in 46 Posts
Ugly cars indeed. So far then, just McLaren who haven't gone for it? Hmm...
Xeon007 is offline  
Old 03-02-2012, 10:39   #302
home_bas
Trusted User
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Finsbury Park
Posts: 4,047
Thanks: 47
Thanked 26 Times in 24 Posts
Yuk indeed... can see McLaren getting new fans just cos the car's a looker. Need to wait for Red Bull to find out the best design of course...

Last edited by home_bas; 03-02-2012 at 10:39.
home_bas is offline  
Old 03-02-2012, 11:56   #303
paulsaz
360: Loeb PSN: Loebz
 
paulsaz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 6,460
Thanks: 45
Thanked 51 Times in 42 Posts
You've kind of got to assume that they're making them that horrendous looking for a reason. The ferrari's god awful but they must think it's going to make it quicker. Either Mclaren are geniuses of design or they've messed up badly and missed a load of tricks everyone else has spotted.

Last edited by paulsaz; 03-02-2012 at 11:57.
paulsaz is offline  
Old 03-02-2012, 12:18   #304
mjb1975
Blandiblub
 
mjb1975's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Kent
Posts: 12,307
Thanks: 29
Thanked 156 Times in 106 Posts
It's all about lowering the noses as a safety rule isn't it? I can only assume the 'step' on the nose is better aero-wise than, say, a sloping nose?

Force India's has the same I notice.
__________________
'Haven't you ever practiced on one of your girlfriends?'
mjb1975 is offline  
Old 03-02-2012, 12:34   #305
The Bear
Old-gold and black member
 
The Bear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Molineux
Posts: 16,943
Thanks: 457
Thanked 1,689 Times in 571 Posts
McLaren will be ******** it if Red Bull go for the stepped nose too.
The Bear is offline  
Old 03-02-2012, 12:58   #306
fattyboombatty
The idiots are winning
 
fattyboombatty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,286
Thanks: 28
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
sigh, the macs nose didn't have to be lowered because they had already implemented a lower chassis last year(a winning car) the others have been forced into this move, it's not a choice.
__________________
If you give up freedom for security, you end up with neither.
fattyboombatty is offline  
Old 03-02-2012, 13:19   #307
reecie
Gamertag: Reecie
 
reecie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Playboy Mansion
Posts: 4,180
Thanks: 22
Thanked 79 Times in 60 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Bear View Post
McLaren will be ******** it if Red Bull go for the stepped nose too.
Red Bull will have a nose that meets the regulations but then will work like Pinnochio's when running around the track.

It still seems slightly odd that Maclaren doesn't need a step to meet the regs. Do all the other cars just decide to run higher in the rest of the chassis then? It would seem there is a fundamental difference either way you look at it
reecie is offline  
Old 03-02-2012, 14:29   #308
The Bear
Old-gold and black member
 
The Bear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Molineux
Posts: 16,943
Thanks: 457
Thanked 1,689 Times in 571 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by fattyboombatty View Post
sigh, the macs nose didn't have to be lowered because they had already implemented a lower chassis last year(a winning car) the others have been forced into this move, it's not a choice.
I know that!

What I meant is they'll be worried that everyone else has done things differently and their's might not be the fastest way.
The Bear is offline  
Old 03-02-2012, 15:31   #309
mjr
Trusted User
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 2,562
Thanks: 484
Thanked 127 Times in 97 Posts
Some of these stepped noses look in profile like someone stitched two photos together but didn't line them up properly I know these things begin to look more normal as you get used to them, but frankly I reckon I'll still think they're some of the ugliest F1 cars I've ever seen even at the end of the season. Still, whatever's fastest...
mjr is offline  
Old 03-02-2012, 19:24   #310
fattyboombatty
The idiots are winning
 
fattyboombatty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,286
Thanks: 28
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Bear View Post
I know that!

What I meant is they'll be worried that everyone else has done things differently and their's might not be the fastest way.

the reason the step nose exists is exactly because it has absolutely no effect on the overall aerodynamic airflow BUT does comply to the new FIA ruling. it's a total non-issue. mclaren simply didn't need to implement it, that is all. no team has made a conscious choice to go with a stepped nose for the sake of improved aero.

here's an allegory to help -

new FIA ruling: from the start of the 2012 F1 season all cars must be sponsored by vodafone and be silver. due to it's current design mclaren will be excluded from this ruling.

understand?
__________________
If you give up freedom for security, you end up with neither.

Last edited by fattyboombatty; 03-02-2012 at 19:30.
fattyboombatty is offline  
Old 03-02-2012, 20:04   #311
reecie
Gamertag: Reecie
 
reecie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Playboy Mansion
Posts: 4,180
Thanks: 22
Thanked 79 Times in 60 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by fattyboombatty View Post
the reason the step nose exists is exactly because it has absolutely no effect on the overall aerodynamic airflow BUT does comply to the new FIA ruling. it's a total non-issue. mclaren simply didn't need to implement it, that is all. no team has made a conscious choice to go with a stepped nose for the sake of improved aero.

here's an allegory to help -

new FIA ruling: from the start of the 2012 F1 season all cars must be sponsored by vodafone and be silver. due to it's current design mclaren will be excluded from this ruling.

understand?
That's not what this BBC analysis of the Maclaren says. From about 02:15 onwards. It indicates that the step allows the chassis to be higher under the area prior to the step and so the airflow through that area is increased. So "more useful stuff" can be done with the air further back. The inference being that Maclaren may have dropped one.

But I have no idea if that will pan out or is even true. Though you'd imagine Gary Anderson knows what he is on about. It will be interesting to see what happens with the other cars though.
reecie is offline  
Old 03-02-2012, 20:54   #312
Mr M0by
[DVDF] Gedi
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Abandoned
Posts: 8,304
Thanks: 1
Thanked 5 Times in 1 Post
And similarly from the Autosport analysis:

Quote:
Originally Posted by By Craig Scarborough
"With new rules limiting the height of the nose and the top of the chassis, Ferrari has pushed its bodywork right up to the regulatory maximum. This, allied to a rectangular-section bulkhead, makes the nose look spiky and awkward.

However, the greater height beneath the nose does produce increased potential to drive airflow to the leading edge of the sidepods for more downforce."

http://plus.autosport.com/premium/fe...ferrari-f2012/
Scarbs usually know's what he's talking about.

Last edited by Mr M0by; 03-02-2012 at 20:56.
Mr M0by is offline  
Old 03-02-2012, 21:39   #313
fattyboombatty
The idiots are winning
 
fattyboombatty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,286
Thanks: 28
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
no, all that is explaining is why the step exists, why the teams implemented this particular way of dealing with the regulation. and again, mclaren didn't need to bother as their chassis design (A PROVEN WINNER) was already lower than the new regulation required. you seem to think mclaren looked at the regs and decided to lower the chassis for 2012. no, it was already lower last year and they have decided to evolve/keep with a WINNING DESIGN. mclaren HAVEN'T chosen a risky new design this is an old design that was winning last year against cars with higher chassis, the same height they STILL have. the jounos are trying to create a story out of nothing. who ever is fastest next year it will have absolutely nothing to with the nose. people are fixating on it simply because they can see something different.
__________________
If you give up freedom for security, you end up with neither.

Last edited by fattyboombatty; 03-02-2012 at 21:44.
fattyboombatty is offline  
Old 03-02-2012, 23:15   #314
Mr M0by
[DVDF] Gedi
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Abandoned
Posts: 8,304
Thanks: 1
Thanked 5 Times in 1 Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by fattyboombatty View Post
you seem to think mclaren looked at the regs and decided to lower the chassis for 2012.
No I don't. I knew McLaren had the low nose last year already - and they were the only ones to be so low in their Hakkinen days too weren't they? Didn't work out too badly for them then. My post was merely in reply to your post that the step nose would have "no effect on the overall aerodynamic airflow". McLaren's RealSimonB might have tweeted as much already but in conjunction with the not-seen-for-a-while front pull-rod system, who know's? The slightly more impartial Scarbs & maybe only just less so Anderson have both suggested there could be gains in downforce to be had from the 'step' and the higher nose in general, that was why I replied.

I agree though that McLaren have gone their route/philosophy and so it would appear they've been less compromised by the rule change but we won't know until the start of the season. Even then as you rightly point out, whether a team performs or not, won't be down to the nose/chassis height only. There are so many variables in the making of each car, really when you think about it it's staggering that they're so close on the track. Mind you, if the F2012 fails to deliver, I'd reckon the front-pull-rod system will be widely blamed. Has any other car used that since the mid-field dominating Minardi in the early noughties? Actually it was driven by Alonso wasn't it?

Last edited by Mr M0by; 03-02-2012 at 23:25.
Mr M0by is offline  
Old 03-02-2012, 23:28   #315
reecie
Gamertag: Reecie
 
reecie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Playboy Mansion
Posts: 4,180
Thanks: 22
Thanked 79 Times in 60 Posts
Surely the issue is that teams had to lower the nose. They either did that via lowering the chassis or via this step. Maclaren have stuck with their already lower chassis. Other teams rather than also going low have stayed high by using the step. So you now have two different philosophies. Because of the way the rest is developed to take advantage of one or the other someone may come unstuck. We may in fact find at the start all are equal but one or the other allows greater onward development. At least it is better than a succession of identikit cars.
reecie is offline  
Old 04-02-2012, 12:09   #316
The Bear
Old-gold and black member
 
The Bear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Molineux
Posts: 16,943
Thanks: 457
Thanked 1,689 Times in 571 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by fattyboombatty View Post
no, all that is explaining is why the step exists, why the teams implemented this particular way of dealing with the regulation. and again, mclaren didn't need to bother as their chassis design (A PROVEN WINNER) was already lower than the new regulation required. you seem to think mclaren looked at the regs and decided to lower the chassis for 2012. no, it was already lower last year and they have decided to evolve/keep with a WINNING DESIGN. mclaren HAVEN'T chosen a risky new design this is an old design that was winning last year against cars with higher chassis, the same height they STILL have. the jounos are trying to create a story out of nothing. who ever is fastest next year it will have absolutely nothing to with the nose. people are fixating on it simply because they can see something different.
The chance still exists that by sticking with what they already had it may now be slower than those who have decided to use a stepped nose to exploit the extra space under the chassis.

Given that airflow under the car is vital then it's a decision that may or may not work in comparison to the other teams, whether they needed to change it or not.
The Bear is offline  
Old 04-02-2012, 12:23   #317
T4V
PSN=The4thViewer XBL=t4v
 
T4V's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Lave
Posts: 19,064
Thanks: 273
Thanked 514 Times in 253 Posts
Of course the stepped nose has one advantage, extra front end downforce, ideal for the teams that have trouble getting heat into the front tyres.
T4V is offline  
Old 04-02-2012, 17:29   #318
Raigmore
Ambassador to Earth
 
Raigmore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: STILL David Vincent's neighbour
Posts: 8,005
Thanks: 369
Thanked 365 Times in 189 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by T4V View Post
Of course the stepped nose has one advantage, extra front end downforce, ideal for the teams that have trouble getting heat into the front tyres.
Good point. Since Red Bull do not have a downforce problem with their design, will they bypass the stepped nose and go for something that gives them better straight line speed?
Raigmore is offline  
Old 04-02-2012, 22:34   #319
The Bear
Old-gold and black member
 
The Bear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Molineux
Posts: 16,943
Thanks: 457
Thanked 1,689 Times in 571 Posts
Depends how much they lose from the blown diffuser. They were touted as getting the best out of it last season, so they might choose to get as much under-chassis airflow as possible to help negate that loss.

Other teams have tightened up their rear packaging now too, a bit like Red Bull used to get maximum downforce last year. I wonder if the teams have had to redesign their KERS systems or relocate them slightly because of this? Red Bull seemed to have a problem with it last year.

Last edited by The Bear; 04-02-2012 at 22:35.
The Bear is offline  
Old 04-02-2012, 22:52   #320
Raigmore
Ambassador to Earth
 
Raigmore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: STILL David Vincent's neighbour
Posts: 8,005
Thanks: 369
Thanked 365 Times in 189 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Bear View Post
Depends how much they lose from the blown diffuser.
But are Red Bull really going to lose as much as many people believe (or hope) that they will from loss of the exhaust blown diffuser? In Silverstone 2011, remember that Vettel was leading convincingly until that jammed wheel nut in the pits allowed Alonso to pass him. Also, RBR have claimed before that their version is a "cold" blower unlike McLaren and some others and so they (RBR) stand to lose less from its banning. If there is any truth in it, then Red Bull might well be just as (or more) competitive in 2012. And there is always that gentleman named Adrian Newey with his seemingly bottomless hat.
Raigmore is offline  
Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The Race - Celebrity Motor Racing Reality TV Show Professor Abronsius Television Discussion 14 17-12-2006 20:50
motor racing pics hotrod Photography and Video 13 04-05-2005 14:59

All times are GMT. The time now is 22:38.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2018 Poisonous Monkey Ltd. Part of The Digital Fix Network