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Old 19-10-2004, 09:42   #1
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The Power of Nightmares [BBC2 20/10 @ 9pm]

Tomorrow night a new series analyzes the potential of world leaders to use fear as an illusion (no surprise there then.) and how terrorism is born out of this.
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Old 19-10-2004, 09:46   #2
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Yes, this looks interesting, especially on the back of F9/11 etc.. Plane to watch.

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Old 19-10-2004, 09:46   #3
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Looks to be a good programme. Looking forward to this.
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Old 19-10-2004, 09:48   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deaks
Yes, this looks interesting, especially on the back of F9/11 etc.. Plane to watch.

Deaks.
I think you were subconsciously connecting 911 with planes there, either that or the worlds worst joke.
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Old 20-10-2004, 12:49   #5
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The trailer music is Brian Eno's from Another Green World

Should be good tonight.
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Old 20-10-2004, 12:59   #6
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the previous documentary series by this team (century of self) was absolutely superb, so I have high hopes for this one.
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Old 20-10-2004, 13:19   #7
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I too have high hopes for this and it is getting a lot of media attention More info. here
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Old 20-10-2004, 21:08   #8
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Fascinating programme, and nice to learn something from the crapbox these days.
Excellent use of stock footage too. I'll be tuning in for the rest of it.

Although my views have not changed............they are all mad as hatters.

Last edited by stantheman; 20-10-2004 at 21:15.
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Old 20-10-2004, 21:12   #9
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yeah i thought it was really well done (well the stuff i saw was good, missed the first 15 mins!), it's just a shame we have to wait a week to see the next one!
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Old 20-10-2004, 21:54   #10
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I hope BBC4 will repeat them all in one 3 hour slot.
Superb I thought. Not hard to see how all the dots join to create the picture of our screwed up world is it!
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Old 20-10-2004, 23:53   #11
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I think it makes massive massive assumptions. Since when was rioting in Detroit a direct response to a failing liberal ideology? More like failing employment levels. The Soviet Union were really pacifists and any threat was fabricated? Tell that to the many colonies around the 3rd world and East European satellite states they went to war with to build. This is the same Khrushchev who liked to fire the old Nuclear missile just to show the world what they are capable of. Kissinger's work to try and bring Israel and the rest of the Middle East closer together is argued from a perspective that it's yet another example of American power conforming the Middle East while religious fascism (which is what really should have been condemned) is virtually uncommented on. There's no doubt that government will try and exploit it's vision and retain more power during times of confusion and panic but there's no need to drill the point home in such a Michael Moore like manor (although I admit it's nowhere near as weak as his work). I can't help but feel that this is yet more smug BBC left-wing propaganda programming put out to basically say 'Our Andrew Gillian was right all along'.
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Old 21-10-2004, 00:55   #12
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You didn't like it then
I can see what you are saying.

They did however make a rather good effort of trying to explain the very difficult to explain, uprise and why, no?
Not something the whole media takes much of an interest in these days.

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Old 21-10-2004, 01:01   #13
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I liked it and will try and watch the rest but I just found it a little selective.
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Old 21-10-2004, 07:10   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmyboy
I think it makes massive massive assumptions. Since when was rioting in Detroit a direct response to a failing liberal ideology? More like failing employment levels. The Soviet Union were really pacifists and any threat was fabricated? Tell that to the many colonies around the 3rd world and East European satellite states they went to war with to build. This is the same Khrushchev who liked to fire the old Nuclear missile just to show the world what they are capable of. Kissinger's work to try and bring Israel and the rest of the Middle East closer together is argued from a perspective that it's yet another example of American power conforming the Middle East while religious fascism (which is what really should have been condemned) is virtually uncommented on. There's no doubt that government will try and exploit it's vision and retain more power during times of confusion and panic but there's no need to drill the point home in such a Michael Moore like manor (although I admit it's nowhere near as weak as his work). I can't help but feel that this is yet more smug BBC left-wing propaganda programming put out to basically say 'Our Andrew Gillian was right all along'.

History repeating itself hey - governments lying (note more than exploiting) to further the fear that a specific threat is imminent. It's all too telling isn't it - and if wasn't so tragic it would be predictable.

I would argue that religious fascism was shown to be embryonic in the programme, especially from the Christian fundamentalist point of view in which the US are the champions.

I think all literature and media is selective while making assumptions - that is the nature of editing, your brain should fill in the blanks, if you want more background knowledge on the reasons behind failing liberalist ideologies I could point you towards a few books. The programme did however at least parallel the rise of both Western and Eastern movements towards religion and war in the last century.

I always find it interesting how whenever a uprising is detected by the authorities even if it doesn't spell itself out - it is always dealt with by torture and execution!

To me the point of the programme was to show how times of panic are actually created in reaction to the governments actions - not the converse. And this exploitation is based upon the lies peddled (such as our old friend rummy) to push there own agenda.

Interestingly I got a weird feeling that the programme was some sort of anger attack from the Beeb, good on them though - a lot of the stuff in the programme is virtually unknown to the majority - and it frustrates me that the century defining stuff is usually hidden from view for obvious reasons.

Great archive footage and use of music, (the interviews look hastily set-up though - run & gun work!) and I look forward to next week.
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Old 21-10-2004, 08:05   #15
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Was gonna join this halfway through, but ended up listening to a documentary on acid house instead.
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Old 21-10-2004, 08:07   #16
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This programme would have carried more weight had it not been broadcast in the wake of the BBC’s own Dirty Bomb, The Grid and the Crisis Command shows. There was one line in the show about the media being just as culpable as the politicos for this climate of fear but unsurprisingly it was left at that. If they expound on that further in either of the remaining two programmes then fair enough but I’ll be surprised if they do.

Interesting to see they are re-using archive footage from the excellent Pandora‘s Box series from some years back.
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Old 21-10-2004, 08:08   #17
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I enjoyed the hell out of this. Looking forward to the next one. Alot. Interesting, though not suprising, to see Cheney and Rumsfeld involved, history repeating for sure... so it seems.
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Old 21-10-2004, 08:38   #18
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Seems like if a trick works before try it again.

No evidence, must mean they are so devious they must have them. Professor Pipes - an expert on the Russian Mindset was the biggest joke. If we thnk they have them, then they must have them. The CIA again is sidelined by these right wingers. Even when they themselves said that they had created falsifications and used black propaganda the head of the CIA, William Casey believed these lies were true after reading them in a book based on this flase propaganda.

Dodgy dossiers and all. The usual suspects in the 80's resurface again - Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Cheney.
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Old 21-10-2004, 09:25   #19
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Powerful stuff this, its great to see how the roots/players of the current Iraqi situation have been meddling and tinkering and have ultimately given rise to the circumstances causing mess that Blairs/Bush have got into . I found it funny how the CIA were totally ignored in favour of the neo cons in the 70/80s about the Soviets defence capabilties. The fact tht Rumsfeld was pushing arguments based on very little evidence of threats, (sounds familar?????) back in the 70s is amazing, how the hell did these goons get into power and why does someone like Blair end up being controlled by such Right wing theories.
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Old 21-10-2004, 09:37   #20
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Anyone know where I can buy The Terror Network book shown in the program or was it only for CIA internal use?
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