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Old 13-06-2020, 15:41   #61
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If they want to keep it in, then the BBFC rating needs to be upped to 18.
******* hell.
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Old 13-06-2020, 16:12   #62
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The dogs name but that has been left in on the last few times Channel 5 have shown it.

Threw me completely last time I watched this on DVD, must have only ever seen the cut one before!


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Old 13-06-2020, 18:02   #63
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The bluray for the Dambusters has a disclaimer about the dogs name, it's otherwise uncensored in the film.
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Old 14-06-2020, 08:40   #64
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As a kid I spent my 70's summers on a farm where one of the dog's names was N-word. Perfectly normal then.
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Old 14-06-2020, 09:02   #65
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I don't buy those arguments. That might have been acceptable satire at the time, but nowadays people don't want themselves or their kids to be exposed to those sorts of derogatory words. Even if they are done to highlight the sort of people that used to say them.

If they want to keep it in, then the BBFC rating needs to be upped to 18.

Then don't watch it, otherwise we a dangerously close to sterilising history. Altering the past or reinterpreting it is a common tool of the oppressor.

You might agree with the n-word being scrubbed from existence but what will you say when other thoughts and words are viewed as wrong think. Who is going to be the one to say POC are not allowed to use the n-word. Or are we going to segregate acceptable speech, which in itself is racist.

You won't eliminate hate or racism by removing the words. Just as you won't eliminate homelessness but editing the dictionary.

18 certificate, The kids these days are stupid enough to eat Tide Pods.

A small vocal mob is dictating how the majority should live; sorry that's not how democracy is supposed to work.
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Old 14-06-2020, 09:44   #66
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Sorry, but did you grow up in the 1960s when people felt free to call you the N word?
Some of my family did, and we're all very grateful that it's much less acceptable for strangers to shout racial insults at my nephews and nieces in the street!

Words do matter, depictions do matter. They might not to you, but that's no excuse to angrily dismiss those whose lives they do affect.
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Old 14-06-2020, 10:08   #67
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Sorry, but did you grow up in the 1960s when people felt free to call you the N word?
Some of my family did, and we're all very grateful that it's much less acceptable for strangers to shout racial insults at my nephews and nieces in the street!

Words do matter, depictions do matter. They might not to you, but that's no excuse to angrily dismiss those whose lives they do affect.
Born well after the 60s and have no doubt that I believe the n-word has no place then or now. But it was used and scrubbing it from history won't stop racism.

It's an easy target, lets revise history while forgetting that not so many months ago if you voted stay or remain you could be sure of being called names. And not long ago question climate change and you are vilified.

I watched the FT episode in question, surprised the BBC even allowed it to be filmed, the scene in question is not funny. But if sufficient numbers of Germans object to the use of Nazi are we going to start scrubbing that out?

We will always find something to hate about each other and invent new ones if needed.

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Old 14-06-2020, 14:52   #68
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Leave it as is, you're meant to laugh at him for being a racist, not laugh with him!
I get that, but I don't think there's any place now for the particular words he uses when doing it. They really grate with the whole tone of the rest of the show and the family friendly nature of it.
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Old 14-06-2020, 14:54   #69
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There wasn't then?
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Old 14-06-2020, 15:26   #70
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There wasn't then?
Of course not, but I suspect those words were far more prevalent in everyday society than they are now.

I'm more than happy to admit its maybe just me, but when I heard them, unexpectedly, in Fawlty Towers of all things, I was genuinely taken aback.
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Old 14-06-2020, 16:21   #71
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Then don't watch it, otherwise we a dangerously close to sterilising history. Altering the past or reinterpreting it is a common tool of the oppressor.



You might agree with the n-word being scrubbed from existence but what will you say when other thoughts and words are viewed as wrong think. Who is going to be the one to say POC are not allowed to use the n-word. Or are we going to segregate acceptable speech, which in itself is racist.



You won't eliminate hate or racism by removing the words. Just as you won't eliminate homelessness but editing the dictionary.



18 certificate, The kids these days are stupid enough to eat Tide Pods.



A small vocal mob is dictating how the majority should live; sorry that's not how democracy is supposed to work.
So you don't agree with the BBFC excluding certain words from younger age groups? Because that's all I was suggesting in this specific case. Even if it's only that episode which gets a higher rating. Its currently a 12. If I had kids wouldn't want my 12 year old to be hearing those words or those sort of attitudes personally.

Perhaps we should just expose kids to everything in the name of democracy and let the parents sort it out?

Last edited by The Bear; 14-06-2020 at 16:24.
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Old 14-06-2020, 16:45   #72
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The Bear, please don't watch this clip of Dustin Hoffman doing Lenny Bruce unless you're over 18. It's stuffed to the gills with that word, in order to make a point 60 years ago that is still relevant today.



In case anyone doesn't know, it's from the 1974 film Lenny, which I'm sure some people would love to ban now.
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Old 14-06-2020, 18:03   #73
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So you don't agree with the BBFC excluding certain words from younger age groups? Because that's all I was suggesting in this specific case. Even if it's only that episode which gets a higher rating. Its currently a 12. If I had kids wouldn't want my 12 year old to be hearing those words or those sort of attitudes personally.

Perhaps we should just expose kids to everything in the name of democracy and let the parents sort it out?
If your 12 year old has a smart phone they have access to a far greater amount of offensive content. And if 12 is too young to risk hearing that word then we should ban the internet for anyone under 18.

I certainly agree that BBFC should tell a programme/filmaker maker that their content will be classified for such an age group giving the maker the chance to revise it. What I am against is the mob deciding that we will ban a word and that will fix the problem; it won't and if you disagree with that mob they'll attack you just in the same way.

I certainly don't think the word warrants an 18 certificate.

What words/ideas/paintings/movies/tv shows will the mob ban next?

Some boffin will probally draw up a list of all the programmes and all their offensive words giving the viewer the choice to watch it or not. Banning it and you are taking choice away from people and giving control over what you watch to others.
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Old 15-06-2020, 07:22   #74
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The problem these days is that it is much easier to present things out of context. Written media has done it for years by cherry picking problematic sentences and removing the context as to why it was said. But we are seeing it more and more with visual media due to clips on YouTube and social media platforms. People can edit out a part of a tv programme or film and present it with no context and claim it to be bigoted or overly "woke" in some way. The Major scene in question is a good example as out of context it seems hugely inappropriate but if you've watched all of Fawlty Towers to that point you would know that we are laughing at the Major for being a man out of time who is losing his marbles. In context it might still be problematic but it's easier to swallow.
I have no issue with entertainment that is unarguably bigoted and comes from a place of hatred being removed from the mainstream but editing things because they look bad in isolation is setting a dangerous precedent. Unfortunately, there is no way to ensure that people have to understand something before taking offence.
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