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Old 14-07-2008, 12:51   #21
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Dude, Nolan is the instigator!
Yes I know, so is he happy that most people who see the film wont be able to see it how he framed it?

I keep thinking surely he has made some sort of allowance so that you don have to watch this at a Imax to get full effect, but I cant find any thing to back this up.

Last edited by new; 14-07-2008 at 12:53.
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Old 14-07-2008, 13:08   #22
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although it may be slightly annoying can't see what the big problem is to be honest. is it really that important at the end of the day?

Maybe I am just getting old and mellowing out and unable to get wound up by such things, but then again the internet was invented for this type of thing
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Old 14-07-2008, 13:33   #23
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Well if I have an option to watch a film in widescreen or pan & scan I know what I would go for!

To be honest in this case as long am I not losing out on anything too major I can live with it.
But then again I doubt Ill ever see the Imax version so I wont know what Im missing, so I can imagine it could bug people who have seen it there & then watch the DVD afterwards.

But looking at it from an artist perceptive it does seem strange to spend a lot of time & money making something that most people will never view correctly.

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Old 14-07-2008, 14:53   #24
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Well if I have an option to watch a film in widescreen or pan & scan I know what I would go for!

To be honest in this case as long am I not losing out on anything too major I can live with it.
But then again I doubt Ill ever see the Imax version so I wont know what Im missing, so I can imagine it could bug people who have seen it there & then watch the DVD afterwards.

But looking at it from an artist perceptive it does seem strange to spend a lot of time & money making something that most people will never view correctly.
At the end of the day, it's just another way to sell tickets - IMAX showings bring significantly more revenue and the demand at the BFI IMAX is so high that they're talking about running the film 24 hours a day.
From Nolan's point of view he probably gets an enhanced budget and the chance to play with technology that is not generally available to feature-film makers (due to the weight of the cameras, cost of film stock etc.). What artist wouldn't want to see their work recorded in the highest possible quality?
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Old 14-07-2008, 15:38   #25
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When they were storyboarding it would have been planned for the 2 aspect ratios. Its not that radical a concept, they've been doing it since widescreen became popular, knowing that for television the film would have to be cropped. Very few films are shot with only the widescreen presentation in mind (The Insider, some of Leone's stuff, etc, have extreme examples). So it's two different framings, as opposed to a superior and inferior. Just because Imax shows more, doesn't necessarily mean it is better.
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Old 14-07-2008, 16:06   #26
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Well if I have an option to watch a film in widescreen or pan & scan I know what I would go for!
that's a no brainer we can all agree on. I meant specifically in terms of the "issue" of a few segments filmed for IMAX. It just doens't get my blood boiling. Having said that I will be seeing TDK on a normal screen and also taking advantage of the fact we have an IMAX in town so will see both sides of the coin...
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Old 15-07-2008, 00:40   #27
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So why not frame it all for IMAX and show that ratio in ordinary cinemas?
I guess Nolan thinks some scene s work better at different ratio, but surely they could be set up so this was not the case?


Interesting concept, dunno how the change in ratio will disrupt the flow when watching.
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Old 15-07-2008, 01:05   #28
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So why not frame it all for IMAX and show that ratio in ordinary cinemas?
I guess Nolan thinks some scene s work better at different ratio, but surely they could be set up so this was not the case?


Interesting concept, dunno how the change in ratio will disrupt the flow when watching.
Frame it all for Imax? 1.44:1? In a normal cinema it would be like going back to Academy Ratio.

Nolan gets 'cinema', we are post-modern and we need all the help we can get at immersing ourselves in a film. I think its great that not only is Nolan one of the best filmmakers working today, but he is also interested in furthering the ways in which films are made and presented without getting on the digital bandwagon. The reason all his films are 2.40:1 (bar The Following, but that was shot on practically nothing) is because he understands that as a cinematic experience, the wider the image the less we see of the cinema. It's why nearly all spectacle films of the last 30 years (probably more) are shot with this wider ratio. Showing the Imax ratio during Dark Knight in oridinary cinemas would be like cutting off the edges.

Nolan is using Imax because there is no escaping it. The screen is so big that even if you move your head around a lot, you can't see anything else but the screen. The switch in aspect ratio will register with you, but I doubt it will ruin anything. It's a test. I can't wait to see it, knowing the Imax scenes will be action scenes. The normal, fully 2.40:1 version will be suitable framed. It might appear to be closer to the action than Imax, but its not like its a forced pan&scan or crop, this was planned and so far from what I've seen in trailers and such, even the huge close-up of Joker from Prologue, it doesn't take anything away from it as closeups that cut off the chin and forehead above the eyebrows are common place with this aspect ratio.

And I'm still 100% positive that the Blu-Ray will have the expanded ratio as an option.
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Old 15-07-2008, 06:06   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueDwarf View Post
So why not frame it all for IMAX and show that ratio in ordinary cinemas?
I guess Nolan thinks some scene s work better at different ratio, but surely they could be set up so this was not the case?


Interesting concept, dunno how the change in ratio will disrupt the flow when watching.
When watching this in IMAX, the change in aspect ratio doesn't interrupt viewing at all. My friend who I watched TDK with last week didn't even notice the changes! The screen is so large that the change is more subliminal than anything else, the image seems to sparkle a bit more, seem sharper and then a quick glance to the edges of the screen and you notice that the image has shifted to IMAX ratio. It's all very seamless (and I was looking out for it).
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Old 15-07-2008, 07:08   #30
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In an imax cinema is fine, i'm worried about how it would look like on BD
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Old 15-07-2008, 10:51   #31
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Me too. I just hope that there will be an option to get the consistent 2.4 ratio on the Blu-ray.
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Old 15-07-2008, 11:23   #32
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Frame it all for Imax? 1.44:1? In a normal cinema it would be like going back to Academy Ratio.
And there's the practical problem that most non-arthouse cinemas can't physically project anything less than 1.85:1
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Old 15-07-2008, 16:18   #33
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And there's the practical problem that most non-arthouse cinemas can't physically project anything less than 1.85:1
Why not? They can just not crop the image surely?
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Old 16-07-2008, 14:28   #34
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Why not? They can just not crop the image surely?
That's a good question, and one I felt compelled to explore a bit more deeply. I first read about it on the forums, in this thread (look near the bottom of the second post) : http://www.thedvdforums.com/forums/s...d.php?t=463113

Looking around on the net a bit, I found some stuff about Gus Van Sant's Paranoid Park, which has run into its own aspect ratio problems: http://blogs.walkerart.org/filmvideo...-aspect-ratio/

Looks like most European cinemas can actually cope with minimum 1.66:1.
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Old 17-07-2008, 09:20   #35
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Not cropping the image would work if the film was 1.85:1 as a new matte plate could be used which would show the full height of the 35mm frame. When the film went to 1.85, the actual print itself would need a hard matte.

However, because TDK is anamorphic, this isn't possible because the lens changes from spherical for 1.85 to anamorphic for 2.35/2.39/2.40. It would make more sense to matte the sides of the frame, making the CinemaScope/Panavision frame 1.44:1.

I'm sure Chris Nolan and Wally Pfister have thought this through though. So I'm not that worried.
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Old 20-07-2008, 06:59   #36
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Dr Stragelove is the only film i can think of with changing ratios?
Mad Max 2 (Warners) makes a great use of it in the transition from prologue to actual film. Made all the better by me seeing it at my uni's film soc which regularly showed academy ratio stuff without any curtains covering the unused portions of screen. So it was a very pleasant and impressive surprise.

The DVD of Woodstock (Warners again) has varying aspect ratios, presumably due to the fairly haphazard way it was shot.

And I thought Galaxy Quest made pretty impressive use of varying ratios. In cinemas it varied between 1.33:1 for TV Show extracts, 1.85:1 for scenes set on Earth, and 2.25:1 when the action moved into space. Sadly for DVD it was cut down to 1.33:1 and 2.35:1. PResumably because of the way 2.35:1 is actually smaller on a TV set.
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Old 20-07-2008, 07:34   #37
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Blair Witch had changing aspect ratios
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Old 20-07-2008, 09:50   #38
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Mad Max 2 (Warners) makes a great use of it in the transition from prologue to actual film. Made all the better by me seeing it at my uni's film soc which regularly showed academy ratio stuff without any curtains covering the unused portions of screen. So it was a very pleasant and impressive surprise.

The DVD of Woodstock (Warners again) has varying aspect ratios, presumably due to the fairly haphazard way it was shot.

And I thought Galaxy Quest made pretty impressive use of varying ratios. In cinemas it varied between 1.33:1 for TV Show extracts, 1.85:1 for scenes set on Earth, and 2.25:1 when the action moved into space. Sadly for DVD it was cut down to 1.33:1 and 2.35:1. PResumably because of the way 2.35:1 is actually smaller on a TV set.
Yeah, but Woodstock isn't a conventional movie movie, and the wonderful use of multiple cameras is part of its charm. And once the ratio changes in the other two flicks (I mentioned Galaxy Quest earlier) then it stays that way, instead of flipping back and forth and constantly distracting the viewer.

The thing is, TDK isn't a concert movie. I really don't want to have the aspect ratio bouncing about between narrow and tall for the duration of the film. Of course, if that's what Nolan insists on (providing we haven't misunderstood his intentions) then I'll have to put up with it.
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Old 20-07-2008, 10:07   #39
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The thing is, TDK isn't a concert movie. I really don't want to have the aspect ratio bouncing about between narrow and tall for the duration of the film. Of course, if that's what Nolan insists on (providing we haven't misunderstood his intentions) then I'll have to put up with it.
I agree, it does sound like it would be annoying and distracting in this case. But I'd be surprised if there isn't an all scope option.

Sorry, I missed your mention of Galaxy Quest. But always worth bringing it up again. Always delights me how much better that film was than it could have been.

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Old 22-07-2008, 12:05   #40
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There's a good article in the new issue of American Cinematographer about the use of Imax in TDN. The change in ratio will only happen in Imax cinemas all other showing will use a standard 2.40:1 ratio. They were only meant to use it officially during the first sequence of the film and one other sequence but Nolan always planned to use extra money to film as much as possible in Imax, so there is about 30 minutes of Imax material in the film, or about 15-20% of the finished film once edited.
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