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Old 17-01-2013, 15:05   #21
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Is Avery Brooks still insane?
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Old 17-01-2013, 15:12   #22
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Judging by William Shatner's documentary last year (The Captains), yes! But he's also awesome.

Ah, Gul Dukat. Forget Khan, he was the best Trek villain ever. I felt genuinely sorry for him a lot of the time.
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Old 17-01-2013, 15:22   #23
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Yeah I always had those moments of feeling sorry for him, it never takes long for him to remind you what an utter **** he is really though.
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Old 17-01-2013, 16:04   #24
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i thought avery brooks was awful! worst over the top scenery chewing i dont think ive seen. The saving grace was the best set of supporting characters ever. Garak was up there with Q as the best support ever.
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Old 17-01-2013, 16:54   #25
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Originally Posted by LeftHandedGuitarist View Post
Judging by William Shatner's documentary last year (The Captains), yes! But he's also awesome.
I caught this on Netflix a short while back. It's just another ego stroking exercise for Shatner, who manages to turn every question onto himself and not allow anything of genuine interest to come from the other participants. God there's some bizarre stuff from Stewart and Brooks, the latter of whom I did wonder if he'd lost all his marbles.
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Old 17-01-2013, 19:16   #26
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i thought avery brooks was awful! worst over the top scenery chewing i dont think ive seen.
Yeah Brooks wasn't in the same league as the likes of Patrick Stewart, particularly in those early seasons when he came across like a cuddly old uncle and couldn't act for toffee. He did settle into the role eventually though & when he went bald he seemed to lose 10yrs and actually look the part at last!

Strange no-one's singled out the performances of René Auberjonois & Armin Shimerman. I thought their performances were easily as praiseworthy as Robinson's!

It'll always be my favourite Star Trek series and one of best Sci-fi shows ever produced, but if I'm being brutally honest it often felt like a poor man's Babylon 5, it ripped certain elements of that show off something rotten!
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Old 17-01-2013, 19:26   #27
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For my, it's got to be "in the pale moonlight"
My favourite episode too.

While TNG is my favourite Trek series DS9 is a not too distant second. It benefited from pinching some of the better plot features of Babylon 5 (it went from a lot of self contained stories to multi-episode arcs which greatly improved it IMO).
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Old 17-01-2013, 19:51   #28
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20 years?! Damn I feel old, must have been 13 when DS9 started then! It instantly captured my attention from the excellent pilot onwards and I wasn't even a big fan of TNG.

Babylon 5 is a pale shadow of DS9 in retrospect. At the time it looked like B5 was going to be truly epic but ended up just being truly awful with it's last season (and it's first was mainly crap as well) whereas despite it's ups and downs (looking at you holosuite Vic!) DS9 gave us 7 full years of entertainment so is the clear winner for me.

I patiently await a complete Blu-Ray release with the discs housed in a limited edition replica of the station
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Old 17-01-2013, 19:57   #29
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And should they ever get around to releasing that Blu set looks like all I'll have to do to afford it so sell my copy of this

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I can also highly recommend this book to anyone who wants a really detailed look at the making of the show from the beginning to end. Unfortunately it is now becoming tricky to get hold of:

Star Trek: Deep Space Nine Companion
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Old 17-01-2013, 19:58   #30
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S6 was on when I was at college, tempted to pick up a boxset and watch it all
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Old 17-01-2013, 20:29   #31
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I remember watching the first episode, it was brought to me on a VHS tape from a friend who was cabin crew with virgin Atlantic, Im a big trek fan it was a revelation, shame I had to wait for the uk airing as this was before file sharing
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Old 17-01-2013, 21:18   #32
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All available on US Netflix btw...
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Old 17-01-2013, 21:37   #33
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Babylon 5 is a pale shadow of DS9 in retrospect. At the time it looked like B5 was going to be truly epic but ended up just being truly awful with it's last season (and it's first was mainly crap as well) whereas despite it's ups and downs (looking at you holosuite Vic!) DS9 gave us 7 full years of entertainment so is the clear winner for me.
I've never understood why so-called "fans" of Babylon 5 always use the final season beat the series down with. You had a fantastic story that played out across four seasons and did things in terms of plotting, characterisation and development that no series has ever done before or since. One great, epic story that had a satisfying conclusion in season 4. Continuing on perhaps a season too long shouldn't detract in any way from what the show achieved. (Personally I enjoyed season 5, and some of the spin off films were very good as well)

DS9 was not without its rough patches either, as with all Trek shows the first couple of seasons were particularly rocky, I also felt when Worf was introduced they had an annoying tendency to focus on his character, but either way you can't just quantitatively compare shows by the number of good seasons they produce. Babylon 5 had 3 great seasons, DS9 perhaps beat that by one or two seasons. I'd rather have one brilliant season of a story than ten mediocre ones! Both DS9 & B5 should be applauded for the way they proved that intelligent science fiction shows that focused on long running arcs could be a success.

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Old 17-01-2013, 22:17   #34
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Happy 20th DS9!
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Old 17-01-2013, 22:50   #35
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I've never understood why so-called "fans" of Babylon 5 always use the final season beat the series down with.
Each to his own of course - I loved B5 at the time I thought it had the edge over DS9 but I sat through it all again last year and B5 really has aged badly. Apart from a few excellent character actors the acting was atrocious (Garibaldi, Ivanova, even Sinclair RIP just made me cringe) the effects, sets, etc look clumsy and cartoonish and yes it ends with an *entire* season that is just dire.

Whereas DS9 had the odd bad episode (Ferengi comedy eps make me sad) it was always just an episode away from a good one with production values that seem to have stood the test of time and a top notch cast that I still can't fault even re-watching now (OK maybe young Jake was a bit **** at the beginning). It got better as it went on and I was sad to see it go when it ended. Don't think I knew anyone that felt that way when B5 came to an end and I knew some pretty rabid fanboys of that show..........

Oh and........



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Old 17-01-2013, 22:52   #36
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As I said at the time, "Sheldon is dead to me!"
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Old 17-01-2013, 23:05   #37
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I seem to remember there being talk surrounding a DS9 movie after the series had ended. I was disappointed with the way it finished but maybe I need to watch it again. I haven't seen it since back in the day but I'd love to see it in HD and go back to the very beginning.
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Old 18-01-2013, 00:49   #38
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Each to his own of course - I loved B5 at the time I thought it had the edge over DS9 but I sat through it all again last year and B5 really has aged badly. Apart from a few excellent character actors the acting was atrocious (Garibaldi, Ivanova, even Sinclair RIP just made me cringe) the effects, sets, etc look clumsy and cartoonish and yes it ends with an *entire* season that is just dire.

Whereas DS9 had the odd bad episode (Ferengi comedy eps make me sad) it was always just an episode away from a good one with production values that seem to have stood the test of time and a top notch cast that I still can't fault even re-watching now (OK maybe young Jake was a bit **** at the beginning). It got better as it went on and I was sad to see it go when it ended. Don't think I knew anyone that felt that way when B5 came to an end and I knew some pretty rabid fanboys of that show..........

Oh and........



As this was a DS9 appreciation thread I didn't want to get sucked into the DS9 vs B5 debate, but here goes anyway:

I find it hard to believe that anyone who has seen every episode of both shows can fail to see how massively DS9 was influenced by B5. Paramount saw the Bab 5 "bible" that was going around before DS9 was developed. It pitched the idea of a space station where politics would play a key role. Originally there was going to be a shape-shifter. One of the main races in the show would be a fading empire. Another would be a race that had recently been freed from subjugation to that empire. Religion would play a big role. The captain would be a baseball fan. Any of this sound familiar?

The one thing that Paramount didn't copy was the arc storylines, content to stick to the Trek tradition of standalone episodes with the occasional two-parter. Eventually they observed how enthusiastic Babylon 5 fans embraced the (pretty iconoclastic at the time) idea of story arcs which would last entire seasons, some even covering multiple seasons, and they started to incorporate similar ideas into DS9. In fact, pretty much everything that DS9 is generally lauded for can find its origin in Babylon 5.

Now are the sets and effects better on DS9? Yes, but that's to be expected considering DS9's budget was three times as big as B5's ($1.5m per episode compared to $500,000). Acting is subjective, and I always thought Sinclair and Garibaldi were fine, while G'Kar and Londo could go toe-to-toe with Garak and Kai Winn.

As far as not being disappointed about it ending is concerned, that's an easy one: Babylon 5 was only ever meant to last for five years. Right from the off JMS said this was a five year story. When it looked like the show would likely only get four seasons he adjusted the pacing to fit the key plot points into four years, which is why season four is so action-packed and season five has a lot more standalone episodes, and as a result isn't as compelling as the first four seasons (though not nearly as bad as you imply). The reason fans weren't sorry it ended was because the story had been told - it wasn't a cash cow to be milked for as many seasons as people would watch it.

And the BBT clip? Well thank goodness I agree with reasonable Leonard and not emotionally retarded Sheldon (I don't think there's ever been a less derivative show).
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Old 18-01-2013, 00:58   #39
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B5 had some dodgy acting, particularly in the beginning, DS9 wasn't all academy award winners either.

Avery Brooks was awful at times, particularly when he had to show deep emotion. Alexander Siddig was generally poor (much better now) and as for Nana Visitor, possibly the worst actor I've ever seen outside of Joey in Friends when he was acting at being a really bad actor, Matt Le Blanc himself is fine by the way.
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Old 18-01-2013, 01:20   #40
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As this was a DS9 appreciation thread I didn't want to get sucked into the DS9 vs B5 debate, but here goes anyway
Didn't take much sucking did it

Does it matter whether B5 influenced DS9? Whether DS9 decided to have a story arc because B5 had one? Really?

All I know is which show I'd rather watch now

P.S. Was the B5 bible Paramount got hold of actually a copy of Lord Of The Rings by any chance?
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