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Old 04-10-2011, 08:00   #1
George vader
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Sky lose Pub ruling!!!!!!

News just announced!!!!

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A pub landlady has won the latest stage of her fight to air Premier League games using a foreign TV decoder.

Karen Murphy had to pay nearly £8,000 in fines and costs for using a cheaper Greek decoder in her Portsmouth pub to bypass controls over match screening.

But she took her case to the European Court of Justice.

The ECJ now says national laws which prohibit the import, sale or use of foreign decoder cards are contrary to the freedom to provide services.

The decision could trigger a major shake-up for the Premier League and its current exclusive agreements with Sky Sports and ESPN.
Major, major defeat for Sky which will/could have major financial implications!!!
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Old 04-10-2011, 08:21   #2
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Presumably it'll extend to domestic use as well. It'll be interesting to see whether the premier leagues rules on not showing 3pm Saturday matches will be discussed. As far as I'm aware there are a number of European channels that do show them, so if pubs are able to get cards for channels with those games as well it could be very interesting.
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Old 04-10-2011, 09:07   #3
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Isn't it the case that Eurpoean revenue is just a small fraction of the Sky revenue for the PL? I would expect the PL to just hike their prices up across Europe to match Sky, otherwise they risk Sky negotiating their bid down because of it. No doubt there will be some loss on the continental side but they'll probably offset that by putting prices up here

Last edited by cheeseypuffs; 04-10-2011 at 09:07.
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Old 04-10-2011, 09:13   #4
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15162241

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However, the ECJ did add that while live matches were not protected by copyright, any surrounding media, such as any opening video sequence, the Premier League anthem, pre-recorded films showing highlights of recent Premier League matches and various graphics, were "works" protected by copyright.

To use any of these parts of a broadcast, a pub would need the permission of the Premier League.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011...ue-tv-coverage

Quote:
However, the court ruled against the bid by Karen Murphy, the landlady of the Red, White and Blue pub in Portsmouth, to be allowed to use a Greek decoder card to show live Premier League matches to pub goers at much cheaper rates than BSkyB charges commercial premises in the UK on copyright grounds.

The ECJ said the transmission in a pub is a "communication to the public", which means that without the permission of the FA Premier League Murphy is in breach of the copyright directive. This directive would not stop individuals buying foreign decoder cards for domestic use.

However, the ECJ said live match coverage itself was not covered by copyright protection, although the Premier League could claim ownership of FAPL-branded opening video sequences, theme music, on-screen graphics and highlights of previous matches.

This means that as long as the FAPL and BSkyB ensure that match coverage includes enough copyright elements pubs will not be allowed to show foreign broadcasts.
Seems the main beneficiaries will be those wanting to watch at home - until the premier league bumps up the prices for the foreign broadcasters everyone will rush to use.
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Old 04-10-2011, 09:23   #5
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Yeah can't see how she could get away with this again. Even starting the game at Kick Off will still infringe copyright because of all the on-screen graphics during a game, which are owned by the Premier League.

Still, it's a sensible ruling: we can buy and sell everything else within the common market so it made no sense at all that we couldn't buy television.

I still wonder what kind of subscription she had though, because Greek Nova is NOT cheaper than Sky. A full package at the moment costs €62 a month for a residential subscription. And, like Sky, they are not licenced for showing in bars. For that, you need a bar / hotel sub which is substantially more.

edit: appears she had the 'pub' sub. From the BBC:
Quote:
Using the Greek service, she had paid £118 a month, rather than £480 a month with the official broadcaster.
3pm's / season tickets are all on the way in the next package now, there can be little doubt about that. A quick search on the internet can get you pretty much every top 10 Premier League team game in reasonable to good quality for free. Sky will have to compete with that and a Premier League 'season ticket' seems the most obvious way to do it. £15 a month to watch all your teams games would be hard to refuse.

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Old 04-10-2011, 09:36   #6
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I am surprised it hadn't been done earlier but this will further marginalise the smaller clubs
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Old 04-10-2011, 11:13   #7
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Expect to see an official FA PL logo soon on the screen for the duration of every live match.
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Old 04-10-2011, 11:23   #8
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All the pubs round my way show Viasat which has 3pm kick off with English commentary. One of the landlords told me it cost him £2k including equipment for a 12 month sub.

Isn't this ruling just a guideline? It will have to come back to the UK courts again for a legal case.
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Old 04-10-2011, 12:09   #9
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Just wondering what effect this might have on other sport too.

I'm wondering about viewing the F1 next year on a foreign free-to-view channel, instead of Sky, but it would be great if an EU broadcaster could sell me access to an online stream... not sure if this means anything in relation to that though.
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Old 04-10-2011, 12:28   #10
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I used an Albanian card then a Bulgarian card. The price went from £70-00 some 5 years back to £250-00 this year. Mostly the card is not much use for anything else. the equipment is next to nothing. Probably a dish & receiver would be maximum of £150-00 so not sure where the pub landlord got his price from. You can of course get matching receiver/cards & that can range from £500-00 to £1500-00 but they are not really needed if you just want UK football.
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Old 04-10-2011, 12:35   #11
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The judges said the Premier League could not claim copyright over Premier League matches as they could not considered to be an author's own "intellectual creation" and, therefore, to be "works" for the purposes of EU copyright law.
How does this affect radio commentary rights?

I've never really understood how what is effectively a description of an event could be copyrighted anyway - even if a station hasn't paid to get commentators into the ground why can't they just commentate off the tv pictures?

Presumably now this ruling means its fair game for any station to broadcast full match commentary on any game?

Last edited by bigman; 04-10-2011 at 12:36.
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Old 04-10-2011, 13:49   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigman View Post
How does this affect radio commentary rights?

I've never really understood how what is effectively a description of an event could be copyrighted anyway - even if a station hasn't paid to get commentators into the ground why can't they just commentate off the tv pictures?

Presumably now this ruling means its fair game for any station to broadcast full match commentary on any game?
I don't think that is the case or what this ruling is saying. I assume they mean that in the EU, you should be able to buy a TV broadcast from any member state where they own the rights.

I don't think its saying that anyone can commentate on a match for free, I assume they still accept that football clubs still own the rights to the games.
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Old 04-10-2011, 13:54   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rbullivant View Post
I don't think its saying that anyone can commentate on a match for free, I assume they still accept that football clubs still own the rights to the games.

But surely this:
Quote:
The judges said the Premier League could not claim copyright over Premier League matches as they could not considered to be an author's own "intellectual creation" and, therefore, to be "works" for the purposes of EU copyright law.
means that clubs do NOT (and cannot) own the "rights" to games since they are not eligible to be copyrighted in the first place?

Last edited by bigman; 04-10-2011 at 13:56.
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Old 04-10-2011, 16:05   #14
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Hmm...

A few beers and swearing down the mic, cursing crap players and getting paid would be my dream job.
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Old 04-10-2011, 17:44   #15
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Old 04-10-2011, 18:18   #16
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If only!
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Old 04-10-2011, 18:34   #17
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I would buy up several of the foreign cards if it made that happen.
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Old 05-10-2011, 09:15   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigman View Post
But surely this:


means that clubs do NOT (and cannot) own the "rights" to games since they are not eligible to be copyrighted in the first place?

Then that surely means anyone can show a match at any time, without paying for it, which clearly is not the case. I think its just the judge commenting on what was one of the SKY arguments that only they have the right to show games in the UK.

Judges generally don't like to make massive precedent, and that comment would go far beyond the scope of the original case, which was to allow to broadcast a foreign satellite station in the UK

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Old 05-10-2011, 09:54   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rbullivant View Post
Then that surely means anyone can show a match at any time, without paying for it, which clearly is not the case. I think its just the judge commenting on what was one of the SKY arguments that only they have the right to show games in the UK.
It's not the case because the ruling said Premier League assets, such as on-screen graphics *are* copyrighted. But the matches themselves aren't copyrighted it seems: to requote from earlier: 'not considered to be an author's own "intellectual creation" and, therefore, to be "works" for the purposes of EU copyright law'.

I'm not saying it does necessarily mean unauthorised radio commentaries are going to be fine, but I'm sure there will need to be a lot of legal analysis into the situation.

EDIT: one other thought - presumably this may mean that sports footage taken by fans may not be liable to takedown requests, on, say, Youtube - and could even extend to professional footage as long as the copyrighted graphics, etc, are removed....

Last edited by RonnyJ; 05-10-2011 at 11:38.
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Old 05-10-2011, 11:36   #20
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Yes, the ruling being that SKY might own all its graphics and the like under copyright, but not the match itself, which presumably they sell to other EU states to show live at 3pm as I don't suppose every territory that shows live Premiership football, brings along its own cameras.

The ruling as far as I can tell is that this woman hasn't infringed the copyright of SKY, as they do not own it, however they do own the broadcasting rights and the rights to presumably film the matches.

So I think we're some way from having fans with their own broadcasting equipment being legally allowed to record matches and show them on the internet.

Presumably the SKY argument to the court was that only they had the copyright to show matches in the UK, the ruling has come back and said that they don't.

If it meant a free for all with regards to sports broadcasting and anybody could record and show any sport for free, the whole of professional sport in the EU would collapse. And they would legislate

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