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Old 21-11-2011, 11:27   #101
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On purely financial decisions why would a company making a loss invest so much money into a football club? That's not suspicious at all.
Its a staple of business, Spend money to make money.

A very specific example for you. The Video games industry, Sony and Microsoft make a massive loss on hardware and only start to break even after 4-5 years of the life of a console ( at the start of the PS3 Sony were losing close to $300 per unit!), they make that loss to get a user base of fans, once that user base is big enough the quantity of games getting bought offset the loss on the hardware, as the hardware costs come down the price comes down in the shops, so the hardware never ever makes profit ( for Sony anyways, not sure on MS)

Both company's make a loss of approx $2b over the 1st few years of a new console, yet make 10s of billions on each hardware iteration.

Man City are in the process of expanding "user base" as it were.

Last edited by Grunge; 21-11-2011 at 11:32.
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Old 21-11-2011, 11:27   #102
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Emirates and Qatar have also both expanded operations at Manchester this year. In fact Dubai is the second busiest international route to and from Manchester airport.
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Old 21-11-2011, 11:33   #103
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Emirates and Qatar have also both expanded operations at Manchester this year. In fact Dubai is the second busiest international route to and from Manchester airport.
I'm really grateful to Manchester City for achieving this for Manchester.
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Old 21-11-2011, 11:46   #104
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It must be a slow news day almost 2 pages of people who don't support City posting negativity on here. City save Hyde United from the wall (Negative story). Eithiad invest in Manchester Airport creating jobs for Mancunians it's all good as far as I am concerned.
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Old 21-11-2011, 11:49   #105
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Well, I am sure you could have created a good news story from a mountain of human hair and gold teeth
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Old 21-11-2011, 11:53   #106
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I never said we did, However there are parts in there that start if there is a trend in growth pointing they wont kick you out of the CL, maybe there will be other small things they can do?.
...
At most I would think UEFA will say they look into it to save face with all the other clubs having a whine.
Trend in growth is just part of it. The key part is to not lose more than £40M betwen 2011/12 and 2014/15.

You really think it will just be a "whine" if certain clubs don't get into the CL because they played by the rules whilst others who flagrantly break the rules get in ?

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Eithiad invest in Manchester Airport creating jobs for Mancunians it's all good as far as I am concerned.
It may well be good news but it has absolutely **** all to do with Man City FC.

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Old 21-11-2011, 11:53   #107
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Well, I am sure you could have created a good news story from a mountain of human hair and gold teeth
DY strikes again. You Legend, you never fail to make me laugh
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Old 21-11-2011, 11:55   #108
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DY, Stalking CitySmith since 2009!.
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Old 21-11-2011, 12:01   #109
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Trend in growth is just part of it. The key part is to not lose more than £40M betwen 2011/12 and 2014/15.

You really think it will just be a "whine" if certain clubs don't get into the CL because they played by the rules whilst others who flagrantly break the rules get in ?
Man City are fighting tooth and nail to be ready for the FFPR. And seeing as officially the FFPR rules were bought in to prevent clubs going under if the owner does rather than a way to control "sugar daddy's", then yeah, it's whining. But then that "official" reason for the rules are pretty much ********, And with PSG and that russian club, and some spanish club I cant remember the name of spending as much as city did they dont seem to be working.

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It may well be good news but it has absolutely **** all to do with Man City FC.
If you want to believe that you have to You have to admit it's one hell of a coincidence that an airline who is investing unprecedented figure into a football club just happens to chose the airport a few miles down the road for it's expansion. But then, the world is full of coincidence.

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Old 21-11-2011, 12:16   #110
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When UEFA look at income and assess what's reasonable and fair market, they have to have a basis for comparison. So with Stadium naming, they have Arsenal to compare against (although by all accounts, Arsenal got a poor deal). Same with shirt sponsorship - plenty of teams to compare with.

However, when it comes to the academy and development of land surrouding Eastlands, City are in a different league and UEFA will struggle to make a comparison.

Big game tomorrow night by the way. We might have an outbreak of football to talk about then.
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Old 21-11-2011, 12:21   #111
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Man City are fighting tooth and nail to be ready for the FFPR. And seeing as officially the FFPR rules were bought in to prevent clubs going under if the owner does rather than a way to control "sugar daddy's", then yeah, it's whining
WTF ? You're the first person I have heard say that this is the reason for FFP.

The vast majority of people IMHO (and I could well be wrong here) believe it to the opposite of what you said ie they exist to make sure clubs don't spend more than they make from their football 'operation' or, in other words, to stop somebody coming along and pumping 100s or millions into a club and buying doing this a benefit is clubs won't go under if the owner does.

If Mansour walked away from City anytime soon then City would be in very deep **** financially.

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When UEFA look at income and assess what's reasonable and fair market, they have to have a basis for comparison. So with Stadium naming, they have Arsenal to compare against (although by all accounts, Arsenal got a poor deal). Same with shirt sponsorship - plenty of teams to compare with.
But "reasonable and fair market" also means there must be a reason why Etihad, for example, paid them £400M if nobody was willing to pay, say, more than £200M. If there were no other independent bidders at all then that makes it even more dodgy.

Last edited by AdamBrunt; 21-11-2011 at 12:24.
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Old 21-11-2011, 12:24   #112
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Well, I am sure you could have created a good news story from a mountain of human hair and gold teeth
Completely unnecessary. Nice comparison.

Grunge/Citysmith/Rob, I don't know why you bother..
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Old 21-11-2011, 12:27   #113
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WTF ? You're the first person I have heard say that this is the reason for FFP.

The vast majority of people IMHO (and I could well be wrong here) believe it to the opposite of what you said ie they exist to make sure clubs don't spend more than they make from their football 'operation' or, in other words, to stop somebody coming along and pumping 100s or millions into a club and buying doing this a benefit is clubs won't go under if the owner does.

If Mansour walked away from City anytime soon then City would be in very deep **** financially.
The result is the same, but the official reasons UEFA gave ( i'll try to find the link at lunch ) was that they wanted to prevent clubs going under if an owner had financial difficulty or walked away ala portsmouth ( im sure there are better examples ).

Also the name of rules basically says its to stop sugar daddies ( Financial Fair Play ) so they do contradict.
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Old 21-11-2011, 12:28   #114
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Completely unnecessary. Nice comparison.

Grunge/Citysmith/Rob, I don't know why you bother..
There are quite a few I ignore, but if it's a reasonable question asked in a reasonable way i'll answer as best I can

I do bite the troll bait occasionally though.

Last edited by Grunge; 21-11-2011 at 12:33.
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Old 21-11-2011, 13:06   #115
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But "reasonable and fair market" also means there must be a reason why Etihad, for example, paid them £400M if nobody was willing to pay, say, more than £200M. If there were no other independent bidders at all then that makes it even more dodgy.
And this is the same Etihad who have never made a profit since their inception in 2003, yet suddenly have £400m available to invest in Manchester City.

Last edited by Lee Brown; 21-11-2011 at 13:06.
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Old 21-11-2011, 13:33   #116
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Explain to me how that works - Etihad realise the potential in Manchester Airport but that's only because of Man City ?? That would be like saying the only reason Emirate airlines add flights at Heathrow is because of Arsenal.
It is the reason. We'd also like to claim to be the reason they fly from Gatwick, too.
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Old 21-11-2011, 13:36   #117
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And this is the same Etihad who have never made a profit since their inception in 2003, yet suddenly have £400m available to invest in Manchester City.
Yep, expanding the speed they have has meant they will run at a loss for a while. they are the fastest growing airline in the world. Spent $8bn on planes ( $8bn for 5 777's, 24 airbus's including 4 super jumbos) in 2004,

Then in 2008 placed the worlds largest airline order in history including 100
planes, 55 additional options for more planes.

in 2010 they had 7million passengers, up from 4.6 3 years before.

Massive marketing and advertising deals are now starting boost sales even more.

How long it will take them to hit profit though is anyone's guess but they are expanding at a massive rate.
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Old 21-11-2011, 13:41   #118
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It is the reason. We'd also like to claim to be the reason they fly from Gatwick, too.
People seem to be mistaking "setting up a business and engineering centre" with "Flying from".

Etihad fly from 66+ locations. yet have 3 office bases. New york, Manchester and Sidney.

Last edited by Grunge; 21-11-2011 at 13:59.
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Old 21-11-2011, 13:46   #119
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As for Footie, It's a massive match in Napoli tomorrow night. Come on City!.

"It's a massive match" now seems to be banded about before every match although the next 3 weeks or so will be a major few weeks. if we come out of it unscathed I'll be astounded.
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Old 21-11-2011, 15:04   #120
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I notice that The Boss is playing the Ethiad on 22nd June - hopefully that will swell the coffers a bit!
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