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Old 16-08-2011, 15:19   #161
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Originally Posted by MaxNutter
football is internationally agreed to not be the best way to make money.
There's a new breed of scum owners like briatore and ecclestone at QPR who might disagree. Buy a champ club, invest enough to get promoted to the prem, stick ticket prices through the roof whilst not investing a penny in the team and then sell the club to a Malaysian tycoon for a healthy profit
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Old 16-08-2011, 15:19   #162
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Thats the thing, I dont see this as a "plaything" scenario at all. The owner of Man City makes big money from real estate as well as oil, By the look of it Man City was chosen specifically for the fact that there was a very large area available to regenerate around the stadium, allowing Man City to be generated in a massive global brand and to set City as the benchmark for the rest of the sporting world.

I view it as once the Etihad campus is complete, not only will the owners use the team as a bench mark, they will also be able to use the grounds and campus as marketing material for the other companies they own ( Architects, construction, sports science, media, etc etc ).

So while the team itself may only make ( in the grand scheme of things ) minor profits for the owner in the long run, the overall impact of Man City and "the project" will have quite a large world wide impact on the owners other businesses.

So is Man City a plaything, No, I dont think so. Is Man City a Massive advertising campaign for Sheikh Mansour, Abu Dhabi and the ADUG, yep probably, in which case they have a vested interest in making City the world wide brand they keep mentioning.
You might be right, but I'm not sure they're looking to make a profit, and (no offence to City) there are surely more attractive clubs, ones not located in the dull and drizzly North West of England, with equal amounts of available land, better suited to a global assault on the sporting world.

The campus is a strange one. On the one hand it looks like the excellent, long term investment you describe, but on the other it looks like a cleverly veiled way of getting around the FFP for the next few seasons...

Regardless of how (inevitably) successful City become, they can never realistically be a benchmark for others.
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Old 16-08-2011, 15:20   #163
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There's a new breed of scum owners like briatore and ecclestone at QPR who might disagree. Buy a champ club, invest enough to get promoted to the prem, stick ticket prices through the roof whilst not investing a penny in the team and then sell the club to a Malaysian tycoon for a healthy profit
yeah, but it doesn't appear that City's owners are doing that...
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Old 16-08-2011, 15:31   #164
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You might be right, but I'm not sure they're looking to make a profit, and (no offence to City) there are surely more attractive clubs, ones not located in the dull and drizzly North West of England, with equal amounts of available land, better suited to a global assault on the sporting world.

Regardless of how (inevitably) successful City become, they can never realistically be a benchmark for others.
While I agree there are probably other clubs that would fit that criteria, im personally glad they chose Man City there were probably factors involved outside the land area available, maybe they really wanted it to be in the EPL?

Being very cynical here, and assuming the marketing idea is valid, it's all assumption on my part, but they could even be bouncing off the United brand by making a team that can beat them eventually ( i know it's not a quick thing but in 20-30 years time, will City be more successful than United? who knows ), but creating a derby of such scale will create a global buzz on the scale of the El Clásico.
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Old 16-08-2011, 15:35   #165
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in 20-30 years time, will City be more successful than United? who knows ),
Not in any recognisable sense of the world success.
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Old 16-08-2011, 15:37   #166
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It's not a joke, it's the truth and you are complicit in it. Still if you think that this is a definition of 'sport' then that explains your confusion.
No, Thats my definition of business. Sport, in this case football is 11 vs 11.

How those 11 are assembled is irrelevant.
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Old 16-08-2011, 15:43   #167
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While I agree there are probably other clubs that would fit that criteria, im personally glad they chose Man City there were probably factors involved outside the land area available, maybe they really wanted it to be in the EPL?
maybe that's true, but in doing so they've made it less simple to get some of the best players.

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Being very cynical here, and assuming the marketing idea is valid, it's all assumption on my part, but they could even be bouncing off the United brand by making a team that can beat them eventually ( i know it's not a quick thing but in 20-30 years time, will City be more successful than United? who knows ), but creating a derby of such scale will create a global buzz on the scale of the El Clásico.
I don't think it will ever be as big as El Clásico, for one, there's no Franco and fascism lurking in the (recent) background, also, a match with no Spanish teams will never have the same global buzz.

Is El Clásico technically a derby?

I didn't mean City can't achieve greatness, perhaps as you say, eclipsing United ( ), just that they can't realistically be a benchmark, because no other club can ever really hope to have the resources available to try.
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Old 16-08-2011, 16:33   #168
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just that they can't realistically be a benchmark, because no other club can ever really hope to have the resources available to try.
I get your meaning, perhaps the team wont be able be a benchmark as you say due to the money levels involved ( although there are already clubs popping up spending similar amounts, PSG, That russian club, Malaga?).

I was meaning more with the stadium and grounds, The owners want Man City to be the world capital of sport, not just football. so a lot of what is going to be built could be classed as bench marks for other clubs/sports venues.
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Old 16-08-2011, 17:16   #169
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aren't all those clubs owned by the same family as man city?
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Old 16-08-2011, 17:33   #170
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aren't all those clubs owned by the same family as man city?
Nope,
PSG is the qatar investment authority
Malaga is a Qatar sheikh.
Russian club (on my phone so can't cut and paste name) is a Russian business man
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Old 17-08-2011, 09:35   #171
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Thats the thing, I dont see this as a "plaything" scenario at all. The owner of Man City makes big money from real estate as well as oil, By the look of it Man City was chosen specifically for the fact that there was a very large area available to regenerate around the stadium, allowing Man City to be generated in a massive global brand and to set City as the benchmark for the rest of the sporting world.

I view it as once the Etihad campus is complete, not only will the owners use the team as a bench mark, they will also be able to use the grounds and campus as marketing material for the other companies they own ( Architects, construction, sports science, media, etc etc ).

So while the team itself may only make ( in the grand scheme of things ) minor profits for the owner in the long run, the overall impact of Man City and "the project" will have quite a large world wide impact on the owners other businesses.

So is Man City a plaything, No, I dont think so. Is Man City a Massive advertising campaign for Sheikh Mansour, Abu Dhabi and the ADUG, yep probably, in which case they have a vested interest in making City the world wide brand they keep mentioning.
Even looking at it with rose-tinted glasses as you are, I really can't see how you can suggest that City is ever likely to be a money maker, and there is no earthly way that the current Manchester City can be seen as a "benchmark" or any kind of example to other clubs.
Man City are losing literally hundreds of millions every year.
And also UEFA are going to examine the Etihad "sponsorship" deal;
UEFA to scrutinise City sponsorship deal
Hopefully that will be exposed as the sham that it clearly is.
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Old 17-08-2011, 10:28   #172
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Even looking at it with rose-tinted glasses as you are, I really can't see how you can suggest that City is ever likely to be a money maker, and there is no earthly way that the current Manchester City can be seen as a "benchmark" or any kind of example to other clubs.

Man City are losing literally hundreds of millions every year.
And also UEFA are going to examine the Etihad "sponsorship" deal;
UEFA to scrutinise City sponsorship deal
Hopefully that will be exposed as the sham that it clearly is.
Im really trying not to see it through rose tinted glasses, im trying to look at it from an entirely external view of what it appears the owners are trying to do.

I agree currently Man City and "the project" are not a bench mark at all at the moment, Im talking a long way down the line, in say 10-20 years time when the Ethihad campus is complete it will be a bench mark ( the world capitol of sport as they called it ) for the world to see.

Blue tinted glasses back on.

You clearly dont quite get the scale of the sponsorship deal though with your "sham" comments.

Ethihad campus ( all 210 Acres of it) is going to include all the hotels, conference centres, restaurants, new stadium ( maybe ), training complex for 400 academy members and housing for 200 of them, the school being built for those 200 academy members who stay local.

The Campus is going to be something very very special and not just limited to football, it's got the National Squash center, Regional tennis center that is going to be upgraded to be a world sports level tennis area. the Manchester Velodrom and what was going to be the Casino area that is also going to get built on, I have no clue what will be on that area though.

The FFPR state that finances gained from the area surrounding stadium can be classed as income to the team, and that is exactly what is happening here, They can scrutinise it all they like, Man city had multiple meetings with UEFA throughout the development of the deal to ensure it fell within the FFPR.

The fact that City did these things suggest that UEFA are saying they will scrutinise more to appease the other teams than to punish City and Etihad.

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Old 17-08-2011, 11:07   #173
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Even looking at it with rose-tinted glasses as you are, I really can't see how you can suggest that City is ever likely to be a money maker, and there is no earthly way that the current Manchester City can be seen as a "benchmark" or any kind of example to other clubs.
Man City are losing literally hundreds of millions every year.
And also UEFA are going to examine the Etihad "sponsorship" deal;
UEFA to scrutinise City sponsorship deal
Hopefully that will be exposed as the sham that it clearly is.
I'm not convinced UEFA will find too much wrong with the deal.
It's £40M a year, but that covers (1) Shirt Sponsoship (2) Stadium Naming and (3) Ethihad Campus development.

If you split that, for example, £5M, £10M, £25M, it's going to be hard for them to compare the campus development to anything else because by the sound of it, the development is unprecedented - that's where the benchmark will be set. Etihad will be getting a lot of publicity out of what is a unique development, so what are UEFA going to compare the £25M against?

I haven't read them, but apparanetly the UEFA FFP rules specifically encourage development of such training/player development facilities, so they can hardly argue against what we are doing. UEFA are duty bound to investigate because there is a family link between Etihad and the City owners, so it is formal procedure more than any suspected wrongdoing.

I can see why neutrals are upset though.
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Old 17-08-2011, 11:10   #174
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IMO what is happening at Man City isn't ruining football - thats already been ruined by the other greedy self-centered big clubs over the last 20 years, and what the owners are doing by financing player purchases is no different to what chairmen have done for years just on a much larger scale.
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Old 17-08-2011, 11:14   #175
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I'm not convinced UEFA will find too much wrong with the deal.
It's £40M a year, but that covers (1) Shirt Sponsoship (2) Stadium Naming and (3) Ethihad Campus development.

If you split that, for example, £5M, £10M, £25M, it's going to be hard for them to compare the campus development to anything else because by the sound of it, the development is unprecedented - that's where the benchmark will be set. Etihad will be getting a lot of publicity out of what is a unique development, so what are UEFA going to compare the £25M against?

I haven't read them, but apparanetly the UEFA FFP rules specifically encourage development of such training/player development facilities, so they can hardly argue against what we are doing. UEFA are duty bound to investigate because there is a family link between Etihad and the City owners, so it is formal procedure more than any suspected wrongdoing.

I can see why neutrals are upset though.
isn't the suggestion that it's a way of hiding the losses of the club and therefore circumnavigating the FFP?

i can't say i fully understand it all...
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Old 17-08-2011, 11:15   #176
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Im really trying not to see it through rose tinted glasses, im trying to look at it from an entirely external view of what it appears the owners are trying to do.

I agree currently Man City and "the project" are not a bench mark at all at the moment, Im talking a long way down the line, in say 10-20 years time when the Ethihad campus is complete it will be a bench mark ( the world capitol of sport as they called it ) for the world to see.

Blue tinted glasses back on.

You clearly dont quite get the scale of the sponsorship deal though with your "sham" comments.

Ethihad campus ( all 210 Acres of it) is going to include all the hotels, conference centres, restaurants, new stadium ( maybe ), training complex for 400 academy members and housing for 200 of them, the school being built for those 200 academy members who stay local.

The Campus is going to be something very very special and not just limited to football, it's got the National Squash center, Regional tennis center that is going to be upgraded to be a world sports level tennis area. the Manchester Velodrom and what was going to be the Casino area that is also going to get built on, I have no clue what will be on that area though.

The FFPR state that finances gained from the area surrounding stadium can be classed as income to the team, and that is exactly what is happening here, They can scrutinise it all they like, Man city had multiple meetings with UEFA throughout the development of the deal to ensure it fell within the FFPR.

The fact that City did these things suggest that UEFA are saying they will scrutinise more to appease the other teams than to punish City and Etihad.
Do you know why they are doing this? I dont understand a middle-eastern family have a burning desire to renovate a ****-hole? What are they getting out of it?
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Old 17-08-2011, 11:15   #177
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IMO what is happening at Man City isn't ruining football - thats already been ruined by the other greedy self-centered big clubs over the last 20 years, and what the owners are doing by financing player purchases is no different to what chairmen have done for years just on a much larger scale.
That's exactly how I see it too. The "Money is ruining football" ship sailed long ago! Infact it's almost now gone full circle where money has allowed teams such as Man City (and previously Chelsea) to break the cartel of the established elite and make it more interesting.

On a separate point, Aguero looks like the real deal!
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Old 17-08-2011, 11:16   #178
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isn't the suggestion that it's a way of hiding the losses of the club and therefore circumnavigating the FFP?

i can't say i fully understand it all...
Yes, I assuming that that is the suggestion from Arsene Wenger (amongst others).
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Old 17-08-2011, 11:17   #179
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IMO what is happening at Man City isn't ruining football - thats already been ruined by the other greedy self-centered big clubs over the last 20 years, and what the owners are doing by financing player purchases is no different to what chairmen have done for years just on a much larger scale.
such as Peter Storrie?

i don't see how the spending of self-sufficient clubs, living within their means, can be said to be ruining the game...

at least City look like they'll have something to fall back on, should things start to go pear-shaped.
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Old 17-08-2011, 11:18   #180
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Do you know why they are doing this? I dont understand a middle-eastern family have a burning desire to renovate a ****-hole? What are they getting out of it?
they're big Oasis fans...

are they going to finally finish the tram link to that area?
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