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Old 15-07-2009, 08:59   #941
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Just a quick question. Arsenal fans seem to have gone from the opinion of Wenger knows best to open critism on the terraces. Is this due to Wenger not winning trophies in the last few years, or is it a case of Jonny come lately turning up at the new stadium and expecting something that is impossible to deliver
TBH most fans that I know are still fully behind Wenger. You do get a lot of JCL's & tourists at the Emirates unfortunately., but I don't take any notice of anything they say.
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Old 15-07-2009, 09:03   #942
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Problem Wenger has is, it's harder for the players on the cusp of greatness to remain unknown.

Unless you get them before they go pro you are going to have to spend big.

When he plucked Overmars, Henry, Viera, Petit out they were known about but their prices hadn't sky rocketed.

At the moment it will cost Ł20 million to get players of that ilk now.

Rafa has been signing under 18 players left right and centre for the last few years, as like Wenger he knows if you unearth a gem it'll save a lot of money in the long run.
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Old 15-07-2009, 09:05   #943
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Wenger shouldn't be castigated for running a financially responsible club and have the 'punching above their weight' criticism levelled at him as it's incorrect.
I don't know the in's and out's of Arsenal finacial struture well enough, but from an outsiders perspective Arsenal have certainly not spent as much as the other 'Top 3'. Wenger has had to cope with losing more top players than any of the other 'Top 3'. No critism from me.

Arsenal may be getting the crowds after their move from Highbury, but how much of the actually gate reciepts goes into the coffers for Wenger to spend and how much goes into paying off the debt that was bulit up by making a fantastic stadium
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Old 15-07-2009, 11:04   #944
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Wenger shouldn't be castigated for running a financially responsible club and have the 'punching above their weight' criticism levelled at him as it's incorrect.
Peter, I agree with most of what you've posted. You seem to be about the most level headed Arsenal fan on this thread right now. But I think you've misunderstood the above quote. I'm pretty sure it's meant as a compliment rather than a criticism.

Of the top 4 teams, Wenger has delivered more Premiership points per pound spent than any of the others. That's why some even rate Wenger above SAF.

I agree with the City fan who said that of the top 4 teams, it would be nice if it was one of the other 3 that lost out rather than you next season.
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Old 15-07-2009, 12:20   #945
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take Gago and Huntlear from REAL... At the moment REAL will sell any player signed by Calderon
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Old 15-07-2009, 12:23   #946
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The same self-destructive force that has destroyed Eboue, almost destroyed Song, ruined Senderos, laughed at Bendtner, hounded out Gallas and didn't care for Hleb nor Flamini nor Adebayor nor Silvestre.
Eboue - didn't deserve it for one bad game but has really knuckled down and worked hard since. Seems to love the club but not sure why given some of the fans. I wouldn't be writing him off yet.

Helb - don't need to say much. He thought he was better than us. Left and found out he wasn't. If you earn however many tens of thousands each week, do you really need the fans fawning over you the entire time? Underappreciated? Definitely. Leaving didn't have anything to do with the fans.

Flamini - was second choice behind Gilberto and had already decided to leave before his final season with us, when he was a revelation. Leaving didn't have anything to do with the fans.

Ade - could have done better and should've tried harder last season, but everyone can have bad years. Can't see Wenger getting rid of him just cos the fans don't appreciate him. It's not his way (Song's still there, for example). I think Wenger has other reasons for letting him go. Leaving doesn't have anything to do with the fans.

Sylvester - Utd fans didn't particularly care for him either. Was brough in as cover for Gallas & Toure. Leaving didn't have anything to do with the fans.

Senderos - Confidence player (which most defenders aren't). Played amazingly when confident, but not so well when not. In that respect, I'd liken him to Manninger, who I always thought was good enough o have become our No 1. Surprised Senderos was loaned out and Sylvester brough in, tbh. Though it could have been to boost his confidence by giving him a clean slate at a different club for the year.

Song - agree

Gallas - no comment

Surprised you didn't mention the gypsy boy

I think the problem is that people want their club to win, and don't appreciate that the average age of the players is about 20. They expect their team to win, and react to their players as if they were in their late twenties, little ralising the effect it can have on their confidence. Most players would learn their trade in the youth team / reserves. We're lucky that many of ours are good enough at that age to be in the first team, though sometimes lacking in the consistency of the older players. Playing young players is the managers choice, and they'll always be a bit of sink or swim to it. It's just a shame that, when struggling to swim, some fans would rather drown them than help them to swim (crap analogy over)
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Old 15-07-2009, 12:24   #947
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what spurs after PV4
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Old 15-07-2009, 12:26   #948
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didnt we try to send Fmaini to Birmingham ? then 12 months later he goes after milan, crazy story
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Old 15-07-2009, 13:08   #949
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Whilst I'm in no way suggesting Wenger buys and sells players due to the reaction they get from certain parts of the Arsenal support - and at the same time would disagree with your reasoning behind some of those players - when a player has the opportunity to double or even triple their salary elsewhere the knowledge that those vocal of fans have booed/ laughed at/ belittled/ turned on them does not help them to stay at the club.

Ade and RvP had finally developed into a pretty potent front two away from the overpowering shadow of Henry.

His games started:goals ratio is amongst the best in the league; even at a time when Arsenal have reverted to their up and down inconsistent ways. Yet, much like Gallas before him, he's been mericlously hounded for what is perceived to be his lazyness and for saying a fraction of what Fabregas has reported to have said this summer about other teams. That Arsenal fan developed brochure got a mention in the Mirror ffs.

Whilst Ade's decision is not solely related to this, it no doubt made the decision to **** off up north and double his salary all the easier.

And where has that left us? With a couple of strikers who aren't ready for weekly league games (Vela & Bendtner) and one who we all hope has finally put his injury problems behind him and another who hasn't played in **** knows how long.

You going to be happy to see a-very-similar-to-Ade-when-he-arrived-Chamakh brought in and wait for that Wenger magic dust to work?

No.
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Old 15-07-2009, 14:19   #950
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There's also the fact that some players are mercenary and if you offer to double/triple their salary they'll take it.

Am I going to be happy if the Ade from two seasons ago turns up at City? No.

Am I going to be slightly less unhappy if the Ade from last season turns up at City? Yes

Am I happy he's going at all? No.

Could we have done better had he tried (or at least appeared to try) a bit harder on occasion last season? Yes.

You talk about the fans making that decision easier, but he treated the club badly last summer and brought a lot of that on himself. It's not all cos of the fans, I think the opportunity to double his salary has a lot to do with it.

Also, his and Torres' goals/game ratios should be the best in the league, as they are both at top four clubs and are the 'main' striker. There's far more competition for those places at Chelsea and Utd and the style of play will be geared more to that single player with us/L'pool than somewhere where you have a pool of three or four and are constantly chopping/changing.

Good to know that I'm one of 'those', though.
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Old 15-07-2009, 14:41   #951
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I didn't lump you in with 'those'.

I keep reading and hearing about how badly he treated the club last summer but pretty much everything that was said about him moving was from a close source or Corbis. You'll find it very hard to find an actual quote from him that said anything other than 'I'm staying'. There's that fabled day where he reportedly said contrasting things in the morning and afternoon but again, no direct quotes.

Compare that with Fabregas this summer and actual quotes attributed to him and that period of almost daily denials.

You can't have dual standards.

Or at least shouldn't have.

And I've seen lots of reasons for trying to excuse goal scoring stats ranging from 'look at how many chances the team creates for Adebarndoor, any half decent striker would score more than him' to 'he only scores against Derby' to your one and none of them change the statistic. And at the end of the season when you look at the football league table it's made up entirely of statistics.

Next season is the first one in Wenger's reign that I'm really starting to fear for the Arsenal. Too many big players have left, will leave or have been marginalised

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Old 15-07-2009, 14:45   #952
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I feel quite sorry for our fans really, being constantly 'hounded' by Peter. I can't blame them for being upset!

Moving on, I'm still hoping for 2 more signings & preferably before the CL qualifier.
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Old 15-07-2009, 14:47   #953
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I'm slavering behind my desk mate.

Reckon I should **** off and support Spurs :nod:

Or United.

CL qualifying draw tomorrow no?
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Old 15-07-2009, 16:13   #954
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Morning:

'I have three more years (on my) contract so no matter what I have to stay. I'm staying at Arsenal.'

Afternoon:

Adebayor added: 'I haven't had a chance to speak to the manager yet. But we will sit down next week and decide what is good for my career.

'We will have to meet with the manager before anything can be decided. But, as you know better than anyone, a lot of teams want me to play for them.

'It will not be a difficult decision. I'm just going to sit down with my agent and with my family and decide what is good for my career.'

Milan midfielder Clarence Seedorf believes Adebayor has already made up his mind.

He told Setanta Sports: 'When I spoke with him I said 'I'm waiting for you'. Let's see what will happen.

'He already said he would come, but it depends now on Arsenal.

'If he leaves Arsenal, it's a done deal. He comes to Milan.'


So whilst he never said "I want to leave", he certainly implied he was thinking about it. And I'm aware Seedorf may just have been stirring ****. Cesc is completely different. He hasn't been saying these things to the press, and all he ever says is "how many times do I have to say that I'm not going anywhere"

Reckons on the bbc that he's passed his medical at city. But it's been saying that all day and it hasn't changed.

Anyways, enough about him. If the CL draw is tomorrow, who's in it that we 'really' don't want to be facing at this stage in the competition?

And don't bother supporting United, Pete. Look how quickly they've all turned on Tevez. It'd be just as bad there
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Old 15-07-2009, 17:13   #955
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And don't bother supporting United, Pete. Look how quickly they've all turned on Tevez. It'd be just as bad there


AND they've been winning trophies

'My family would understand if I signed for Real Madrid because they love me, they want me to be happy and what is best for me,' Cesc told The Sun.

'They'd support me - whichever club I joined. My family will always be there for me - whatever decision I make. They're the ones who are always by my side.'

At the moment it's not happened so I don't have to choose,' he said. 'For any player it gives great pride that those two clubs come to sign him. It would be a difficult choice.'

Next day:

‘I'm not sure how many times I need to talk directly about my commitment to Arsenal as I continue to say the same thing over and over again

That's in addition to his Gallas-esque 'impotent' outburst.

Not much different in my eyes between all three apart from knowing who to believe said what. And until I see them say it live, on tele, in English I don't believe anything the press says.

It's just infuriating to see some players get a bye and others viliified.

--

Anyway, let's keep our fingers crossed he won't be missed next season (which imo is very unlikely )....
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Old 15-07-2009, 17:20   #956
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'My family would understand if I signed for Real Madrid because they love me, they want me to be happy and what is best for me,' Cesc told The Sun.

"The Sun" FFS


If the story isn't totally made up, it probably went something like:

Scum reporter: Would your family still talk to you if you joined Real? Would they understand?

Cesc: Of course they would.



But feel free to vilify him Peter.
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Old 15-07-2009, 17:25   #957
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I'm not villifying anybody.

Any excuse eh?

The Sun (mis)translated a Spanish interview with him I believe fwiw and yes, of course, the interview question and answers were redited.

Nevertheless some fans blindly swallowed what Ade, because it fit in with what they wanted no doubt, was reported to have said whilst not Cesc.

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Old 15-07-2009, 18:24   #958
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And don't bother supporting United, Pete. Look how quickly they've all turned on Tevez. It'd be just as bad there
Well I'd love to hear your thoughts if an Arsenal player went and joined Spurs and then kept having a pop about Wenger in the press.

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Old 15-07-2009, 18:34   #959
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*cough*the recently attacked whilst out for dinner, non-turning up England U-21, have to leave Arsenal Theo, all family and friends Spurs, now Spurs bit-part not even making the bench when Lennon's injured player*cough*

Every Gooner can unite to scream four word obseneties at that **** but TBF he barely played any first team football for Arsenal

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Old 15-07-2009, 21:36   #960
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looking forward to see how the midfield performs with arshavin and fabragas starting the season together having had time to train together

be interesting to see who performs the best and who scores (and gets the most assists)

still think fabragas will have the edge
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