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Old 06-09-2006, 09:19   #1001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keiron99
Then where have they all been when there have been rows and rows of empty seats in recent years?
I think empty seats is down to poor ticket management in most cases rather than lack of demand. Most games appear to be sold out up unitl the last moment where tickets sometimes become available. If they sort out the ticket management then I'm sure the ground would be full for most matches.

D2000s - if tickets make it as far as general sale then you don't need a fancard order them over the phone. It's only for popular games that a fancard / season ticket is really required and I think giving first dibs to these is the right thing to do anyway.
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Old 06-09-2006, 09:20   #1002
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Originally Posted by d2000s
That's fair enough if you live locally, but if you live a bit further afield (and in my case have to book flights) you have to be sure of tickets. With Utd, if tickets are available, anyone can go on the website to order, you dont need to apply for a "fan card".
I too hanker for the days when you could just walk up - and you still can for some games - but I don't honestly see applying for a fan card as an insurmountable barrier. You only need to ring or enter a few details on the website.
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Old 06-09-2006, 09:25   #1003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keiron99
The lower tier is 4 curved stands, with angled bits in the corners (splitting hairs here, maybe I'm kidding myself it has more character than it does!) The upper tiers are clearly not joined though.
I know what you mean (in that it is not a 'bowl' in the upper rows of seats) with the towers (in each 'corner' ??) - a lot of lost capacity there.

But it is by no imagination, IMO, 4 seperate and distinct stands.
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Old 06-09-2006, 09:28   #1004
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Originally Posted by stu_69
i don't there was a complete cock-up on the website yesterday and the phone lines where jammed so I could not get tickets despite having a number of fancards. And from reading on other Liverpool forums a lot of people suffered the same fate.

I live in London and I regulary go to WHL to see spurs as I like to go to premiership games. WHL is similar capacity to Anfield and is sold out on most if not all home prem games but I have never had to go through what I did yesterday to get tickets.

Everytime Liverpool tickets go on sale the website crashes and the phone lines are jammed. They must run the website on a old desktop and have 3 girls in a room as their call centre. It's a joke!!
I have never had a single problem with either the TO or website when trying to get ticketets.
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Old 06-09-2006, 09:28   #1005
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I recommend reading Red & White Kop. http://www.redandwhitekop.com/stadium-against.php

Heres a snippet:
We have an average league crowd of around 44,000 in a ground holding only 45,500. We also have a further 10-14,000 on the season ticket waiting list champing at the bit to get in.

The clear insinuation here is that if the aforesaid 44,000 are not quite all season ticket holders then they certainly represent the guaranteed minimum base upon which we need to build for the future.

Add the 10-14,000 waiting list to the 44,000 and that gives a virtually guaranteed catchment of 54-58,000. Throw in a further 2,000 -12,000 casual visitors depending on the attractiveness of the particular game and there is your magical 60-70,000 regular attendance.

... the crucial point as far as the optimum capacity issue is concerned, is that the 12,000 match day applications effectively account for the whole of the season ticket waiting list demand.

YES, you heard right.

In other words for a run-of-the-mill league fixture there is NO FURTHER DEMAND OF ANY REAL SIGNIFICANCE to be tapped into. Thus, the forty odd thousand that is currently Liverpool's average attendance happens also to be - moreorless - Liverpool's maximum regular attendance OTHER THAN FOR the most attractive fixtures

....

The highest average attendance in our club's entire history is around 48,000. That came at a time when our club was eminently successful and capacity was nudging 56,750. That record average comprised several games at - or almost at - capacity such as Everton, United, Chelsea, Leeds but reveals several lesser fixtures struggling to break past 38,000.


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Old 06-09-2006, 09:31   #1006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keiron99
Because Anfield isn't exactly 5 star accommodation. There are far too many restricted views, and the seats in the Kem and Main Stand are nothing short of appalling.
That's a bit harsh - you forgot to mention that there isn't a restricted view for the vast majority of the stadium (certainly none in the centenary or Kop, most of the main and most of anny road end). In fact the only restricted views, IMO, are caused by the columns holding up the roof on the main stand.
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Old 06-09-2006, 09:42   #1007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyPearce
I think empty seats is down to poor ticket management in most cases rather than lack of demand. Most games appear to be sold out up unitl the last moment where tickets sometimes become available. If they sort out the ticket management then I'm sure the ground would be full for most matches..
Yeah, this is definately true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyPearce
D2000s - if tickets make it as far as general sale then you don't need a fancard order them over the phone. It's only for popular games that a fancard / season ticket is really required and I think giving first dibs to these is the right thing to do anyway.
I have a fancard so just order them over the net, but I just assumed that, since there was no link for non-fancard holders, I just assumed they couldnt order and think many of them think the same thing - another example of the poor ticket management, dont see any reason for not having this option online.
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Old 06-09-2006, 09:43   #1008
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There are columns in both the Annie (remember how it wobbled?) and the Main Stand. The back of the Kemlyn is dreadful - certainly the last dozen or so rows have the roof hanging down in front of them and it's just a dreadful place to sit. And the wings of nearly all the stands which have just been bolted on to the existing stands are not exactly ideal (hence cheaper, I think).
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Old 06-09-2006, 09:48   #1009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyPearce
I think empty seats is down to poor ticket management in most cases rather than lack of demand.
I actually think many people use this as a convenient excuse not to get out of their armchairs. Apart from the fact we seem to sell tickets for matches not far enough in advance, I can't see any problems with the arrangements. Back in the 70s we'd get 50,000 full houses and you didn't have the option of the net then, and many of us still weren't "on the phone" (now you don't hear that phrase very often these days!).

I'm really torn about the new stadium. My main concern is that we won't fill it and we'll be stuck with a debt of hundreds of millions which, let's face it, the fans will have to pay off.
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Old 06-09-2006, 09:49   #1010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keiron99
I recommend reading Red & White Kop. http://www.redandwhitekop.com/stadium-against.php

Heres a snippet:
We have an average league crowd of around 44,000 in a ground holding only 45,500. We also have a further 10-14,000 on the season ticket waiting list champing at the bit to get in.

The clear insinuation here is that if the aforesaid 44,000 are not quite all season ticket holders then they certainly represent the guaranteed minimum base upon which we need to build for the future.

Add the 10-14,000 waiting list to the 44,000 and that gives a virtually guaranteed catchment of 54-58,000. Throw in a further 2,000 -12,000 casual visitors depending on the attractiveness of the particular game and there is your magical 60-70,000 regular attendance.

... the crucial point as far as the optimum capacity issue is concerned, is that the 12,000 match day applications effectively account for the whole of the season ticket waiting list demand.

YES, you heard right.

In other words for a run-of-the-mill league fixture there is NO FURTHER DEMAND OF ANY REAL SIGNIFICANCE to be tapped into. Thus, the forty odd thousand that is currently Liverpool's average attendance happens also to be - moreorless - Liverpool's maximum regular attendance OTHER THAN FOR the most attractive fixtures

....

The highest average attendance in our club's entire history is around 48,000. That came at a time when our club was eminently successful and capacity was nudging 56,750. That record average comprised several games at - or almost at - capacity such as Everton, United, Chelsea, Leeds but reveals several lesser fixtures struggling to break past 38,000.


it is an interesting argument - as to how many people on the waiting list are already accounted for in the 44,000 people attending games but ...

Man U had very similar numbers as the above before they expanded ie there was nothing to suggest a few years ago that Man U would fill a 66-70k stadium on a regular basis but they do. So why should it be any different for us ?

You also need to think about the extra revenue that can be made by increasing/updating the corporate "seats". As someone said earlier, Arsenal are charging £25k for 1 seat - which even taking London prices into account - is a large chunk of cash to be getting on a yearly basis.

If you conside that the cost of expanding is roughly the same as the cost of rebuilding, financially rebuilding makes sense.

One thought ... I wonder how much money LFC lost out on because they didn't have the corporate facilities and capacity to cope with the extra interest generated by winning No. 5 ??
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Old 06-09-2006, 09:50   #1011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keiron99
I recommend reading Red & White Kop. http://www.redandwhitekop.com/stadium-against.php




[/I]
Highly dubious logic in that article, it takes no account of the fact that, outside of season tickets, a bigger capacity means that tickets can go on general sale much quicker which will bring more casual fans/neutrals to the ground. The "nicer" surroundings of a new stadium may also make going to the match more appealing to a portion of people too.
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Old 06-09-2006, 09:51   #1012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keiron99
There are columns in both the Annie (remember how it wobbled?) and the Main Stand. The back of the Kemlyn is dreadful - certainly the last dozen or so rows have the roof hanging down in front of them and it's just a dreadful place to sit. And the wings of nearly all the stands which have just been bolted on to the existing stands are not exactly ideal (hence cheaper, I think).
This is going to sound odd, being a ST holder, but I can never remember where the Kemlyn is
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Old 06-09-2006, 09:55   #1013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keiron99
I actually think many people use this as a convenient excuse not to get out of their armchairs. Apart from the fact we seem to sell tickets for matches not far enough in advance, I can't see any problems with the arrangements. Back in the 70s we'd get 50,000 full houses and you didn't have the option of the net then, and many of us still weren't "on the phone" (now you don't hear that phrase very often these days!).

I'm really torn about the new stadium. My main concern is that we won't fill it and we'll be stuck with a debt of hundreds of millions which, let's face it, the fans will have to pay off.
I'll respond in the new thread!
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Old 06-09-2006, 10:09   #1014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamBrunt
This is going to sound odd, being a ST holder, but I can never remember where the Kemlyn is
The Kemlyn is, er, on the Kemlyn Road! (the Centenary as it's been called for the last few years). I'm sure in Simon Inglis's excellent book on league grounds, it was mentioned that part of the reason that Anfield was so intimidating to oppositions was because of the low roof line especially of the Kop and Kemlyn. They did look menacing, and gave no clue as to how many people were in them. I'm sure the design contributed to the deafening noise too.


Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamBrunt
Man U had very similar numbers as the above before they expanded ie there was nothing to suggest a few years ago that Man U would fill a 66-70k stadium on a regular basis but they do. So why should it be any different for us ?
Because ManU are an exception. They are in a different league in this respect.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamBrunt
You also need to think about the extra revenue that can be made by increasing/updating the corporate "seats". As someone said earlier, Arsenal are charging £25k for 1 seat - which even taking London prices into account - is a large chunk of cash to be getting on a yearly basis.
It's only in the last few years that they've managed to sell all the corporate boxes - and they only run down one side of the ground! The fact is, big business is located in London and Manchester. Liverpool as a city (rather than football club), just can't compete.
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