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Old 15-06-2005, 18:20   #201
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Originally Posted by RonnyJ
After rewatching it, it seems a bit odd to me how at the start Lynda says to the Doctor how 'brilliant' it is that he's been chosen for Big Brother. Since she knows that all but one contestant will 'die', his presence there is potentially harmful to both him and her and so her enthusiasm there seems a bit weird.

It's most likely a script decision done for the 'Big Brother' atmosphere at the start, but it definitely is odd when you notice it on a second viewing.
Maybe she's playing the game? Chirpy-chirpy cheeriness in an attempt to endeer herself to the viewers?

Or perhaps terrified and babbling as a result? Bear in mind that he arrives a few minutes before an eviction.

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Old 15-06-2005, 18:31   #202
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To me it just seemed like a rather silly way to bring in current cultural references.

It genuinely makes me sad. Really feel like I've missed something by not getting it
I don't think the intention was just to bring in cultural references (although Doctor Who has always done this). On Doctor Who confidential RTD said one thing he always wanted to do with Doctor Who was have 'Game shows gone mad'. The Running Man anyone? He could easily have invented fictional game shows, but he didn't, for two reasons. Firstly, Rose knew what the weakest link was, at the start she had no reason to suspect anything sinister, and secondly it was just an ideal opportunity for a bit of fun. The BB thing was perfectly timed as well. As far as I'm concerned it wasn't much different to the concept of The Mind Robber (Patrick Troughton story) where they find themselves in a litterary fiction type world. More fantasy than sci-fi, at least to begin with. For me, this was like a successful cross between The Mind Robber and Vengeance On Varos (Which featured sick games where the prize was your life).

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Old 15-06-2005, 18:45   #203
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Originally Posted by thescrounger
I don't think the intention was just to bring in cultural references (although Doctor Who has always done this). On Doctor Who confidential RTD said one thing he always wanted to do with Doctor Who was have 'Game shows gone mad'. The Running Man anyone? He could easily have invented fictional game shows, but he didn't, for two reasons. Firstly, Rose knew what the weakest link was, at the start she had no reason to suspect anything sinister, and secondly it was just an ideal opportunity for a bit of fun. The BB thing was perfectly timed as well. As far as I'm concerned it wasn't much different to the concept of The Mind Robber (Patrick Troughton story) where they find themselves in a litterary fiction type world. More fantasy than sci-fi, at least to begin with. For me, this was like a successful cross between The Mind Robber and Vengeance On Varos (Which featured sick games where the prize was your life).
Good points. The biggest point of reference I've been using on this episode is The Chase where they went really OTT! Didn't really stop to consider the likes of Varos and The Mind Robber.
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Old 15-06-2005, 22:14   #204
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Just got back from our holidays. Guess what - the pc crashed on friday and didn't record the episode. Is it likely to be on again soon or shall we have to watch next saturday's first 2 minutes very closely?
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Old 15-06-2005, 22:17   #205
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BBC3 on friday night I think.

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Old 15-06-2005, 23:41   #206
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it does remind of things like the mind robber and episodes set in the matrix, but there lies the rub, they are imaginary episodes explained within in the plot as surreal worlds and not reality, if RTD had done this, fine. I fhe had used some imagination and done original thing like the Running Man (which itself isn't original, a rip off of Le Prix au Danger from what I can see) it would have bene fine as well. But what it actually did do is expect us to believe in 200,000 years time they will be obsessed with late 20th century/early 21st gameshows, how pompous and egotistical is that? No it rips apart the idea that this is meant to be a believable SF show showing us possibler futures because its rutted in infantile obsessions, bodily humour and whats going on now.

Saying all that though I agreed with almost all the reviews on Outpost Gallifrey cos I really enjoyed it, just feel the concept/structure behind it is wrong, but pulled off with aplomb. But the rug may be pulled out from beneath me yet if it turns out the future reality was designed specifically with Rose in mind, then its fine, just more manipulation.

Anyway the review I was referring to:

No, No, NO!!! Doctor Who is SF not fantasy and therefore needs a plausible reality extrapolated universe to inhabit otherwise all plausibility is lost. The success of the Star-Trek franchise is because they take it seriously and make the viewer believe. Personally I do not believe that:

1) a so called 'transmat beam' could pluck him and his companions out of the previously impregnable TARDIS.

2) the Doctor would yet again arrive on Space Station 5 - perhaps the most tedious place in the universe unless the sets and CGI had to be reused for budgetary reasons: expect Maureen to turn up at any moment...

3) 200+ years in the future the occupants of Earth will still be watching late 20th Century TV shows ('Ground Force?!!) whether they involve termination or not. If you want to make a point about the current state of TV then you're going to have to be a lot more artful and inventive than this to pull it off - sixth form rubbish. Robotic Trinny & Susannah/Anne Robinson? Candyman anyone?

4) the Doctor would make a scientific howler of the first magnitude: when describing the Dalek's stealth technology he says (and I paraphrase): "... nothing can reveal them: not radar, .... or sonar.." SONAR?! Hardly surprising that a sound based ranging system won't work in a vacuum right? This is typical of the pseudo-scientific rubbish that infests the series. It just shows that the writers are not of a sufficient quality to handle SF. At least the pseudo-science in Star_Trek is plausible within its own context even if it is based on zero fact: Dr Who is just plain ignorant and it ruins the series for anyone with a brain.

5) The 'Ultimate Killing Cyborgs' (tm) capture Rose and threaten to kill her unless the Doctor does what they ask. He says 'no' and they are so surprised that they get flummoxed, forget about Rose and trundle off in a panic to finish their dastardly scheme in a hurry just in case... For heaven's sake... :-(

6) If the Daleks wanted the Doctor dead then they had endless opportunities and logically the power to implement any of them (this may become a plot point so with this point I'm on shaky ground). It does have a whiff of Dr Evil about it: explain how the Doctor is going to die long enough for him to escape.

By Phil White

I also like the review by Kimpton afterwards, which comments on the thing that is so great about this series and that we're so lucky, its become a cultural phenomenon, famously thrashing ITV and everyones watching it and talking about it. Its goiod to have it come back BIG which means a now announced third series and second Xmas special.
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Old 15-06-2005, 23:58   #207
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Quote:

Anyway the review I was referring to:

No, No, NO!!! Doctor Who is SF not fantasy and therefore needs a plausible reality extrapolated universe to inhabit otherwise all plausibility is lost. The success of the Star-Trek franchise is because they take it seriously and make the viewer believe. Personally I do not believe that:

1) a so called 'transmat beam' could pluck him and his companions out of the previously impregnable TARDIS.

2) the Doctor would yet again arrive on Space Station 5 - perhaps the most tedious place in the universe unless the sets and CGI had to be reused for budgetary reasons: expect Maureen to turn up at any moment...

3) 200+ years in the future the occupants of Earth will still be watching late 20th Century TV shows ('Ground Force?!!) whether they involve termination or not. If you want to make a point about the current state of TV then you're going to have to be a lot more artful and inventive than this to pull it off - sixth form rubbish. Robotic Trinny & Susannah/Anne Robinson? Candyman anyone?

4) the Doctor would make a scientific howler of the first magnitude: when describing the Dalek's stealth technology he says (and I paraphrase): "... nothing can reveal them: not radar, .... or sonar.." SONAR?! Hardly surprising that a sound based ranging system won't work in a vacuum right? This is typical of the pseudo-scientific rubbish that infests the series. It just shows that the writers are not of a sufficient quality to handle SF. At least the pseudo-science in Star_Trek is plausible within its own context even if it is based on zero fact: Dr Who is just plain ignorant and it ruins the series for anyone with a brain.

5) The 'Ultimate Killing Cyborgs' (tm) capture Rose and threaten to kill her unless the Doctor does what they ask. He says 'no' and they are so surprised that they get flummoxed, forget about Rose and trundle off in a panic to finish their dastardly scheme in a hurry just in case... For heaven's sake... :-(

6) If the Daleks wanted the Doctor dead then they had endless opportunities and logically the power to implement any of them (this may become a plot point so with this point I'm on shaky ground). It does have a whiff of Dr Evil about it: explain how the Doctor is going to die long enough for him to escape.

By Phil White
I really feel sorry for this guy. I bet he's a riot at parties.
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Old 16-06-2005, 00:08   #208
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I really feel sorry for this guy. I bet he's a riot at parties.
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Old 16-06-2005, 00:20   #209
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Wonder if he's kissed a girl yet.

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Old 16-06-2005, 00:38   #210
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The reviewer seems to have missed what the new Doctor Who series is about - a fun piece of escapism for everyone to enjoy.

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Old 16-06-2005, 09:08   #211
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Originally Posted by thescrounger
I really feel sorry for this guy. I bet he's a riot at parties.
Yeah, the 'Radar/Sonar' howler ruined the whole thing for me.
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Old 16-06-2005, 09:08   #212
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AS I saidI do enjoy it, its been a great series, probably the best who has ever been, but it could have been better, there have been a lot of lfaws in the writing. RTD seems to care so much about characterisation but doesn't give two hoots about putting storylines under a magnifying glass to test for any plot holes/weaknesses and then repairing them. A flaw I feel for instance, is the Doctor calling the Daleks geniuses in the episode where it then goes to levitate around a stairwell instead of up the middle, that someone with an IQ of 100 can work out let alone a genius. And there's anothger example here, say we will kill rose if you dont do what we say, you say no, alright then we wont kill rose because she's your companion and not allowed to die this is how these things work. NNOO! A thing should be believable, all characters should have internal logic, including the bad guys, Dr Evil indeed.
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Old 16-06-2005, 10:13   #213
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Originally Posted by cliff homewood
And there's anothger example here, say we will kill rose if you dont do what we say, you say no, alright then we wont kill rose because she's your companion and not allowed to die this is how these things work. NNOO! A thing should be believable, all characters should have internal logic, including the bad guys, Dr Evil indeed.
They'd be foolish to kill Rose straight away as she is a hostage to bargain with. Even the Daleks know that. Besides, there might be another reason why they can't kill her...

Quote:
A flaw I feel for instance, is the Doctor calling the Daleks geniuses in the episode where it then goes to levitate around a stairwell instead of up the middle, that someone with an IQ of 100 can work out let alone a genius.
I really don't see that as a problem or an issue for my enjoyment of the episode. Maybe it just felt like going around the edge.

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Old 16-06-2005, 10:17   #214
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"A flaw I feel for instance, is the Doctor calling the Daleks geniuses in the episode where it then goes to levitate around a stairwell instead of up the middle, that someone with an IQ of 100 can work out let alone a genius."

You could explain that by saying the Dalek's hover-boots only work up to a certain altidtude, going up an entire stairwell would be too high. etc.. :nerd: hehe.

I say just go with it, Dr.Who has been one of the most fun series I've enjoyed in ages. (next to Lost and 24. In some cases, it's been more fun...)
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Old 16-06-2005, 10:34   #215
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Did anyone here order a copy of the dalek poster from the Radio Times a few weeks back? Anyone recieved one yet?

cheers

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Old 16-06-2005, 10:40   #216
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G damn it.

I just flicked through a copy of my works Mirror which gives the game away with a big ass picture etc.
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Old 16-06-2005, 10:50   #217
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Originally Posted by FLCL
G damn it.

I just flicked through a copy of my works Mirror which gives the game away with a big ass picture etc.
I wish I'd read that a few minutes earlier, I just did the same damn thing!



James

Last edited by jdw; 16-06-2005 at 10:51.
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Old 16-06-2005, 10:56   #218
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Did anyone here order a copy of the dalek poster from the Radio Times a few weeks back? Anyone recieved one yet?

cheers

mikef
Mine came last week
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Old 16-06-2005, 10:56   #219
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They'd be foolish to kill Rose straight away as she is a hostage to bargain with. Even the Daleks know that. Besides, there might be another reason why they can't kill her...
If the Daleks are from the Dalek in the episode"Dalek" then they wont kill her as they share her DNA (as that Dalek would not kill her for the same reason)
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Old 16-06-2005, 11:05   #220
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I wish I'd read that a few minutes earlier, I just did the same damn thing!



James
tvtome had that information a few days back...

If you look at my post I spoilered it all out just in case.
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