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Old 21-02-2021, 21:08   #1
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Question Is anyone using a projector?

Welcome

Giving some consideration to moving to a 4k projector. Is anyone using a projector . The room is about 12/13ft long 8/9ft wide. How have you secured your projector i.e on top of something or is it secured to the celling? Did you pay someone to calibrate it? Did you buy a specific type of projector screen? How is your other equipment arranged do you have hdmi leads traveling from the back of your projector to you AMP/blu ray player/sky box situated under your projector screen?

Thinking of you Mas
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Old 22-02-2021, 02:24   #2
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You're aware of how much 4K projectors cost, right? With Optoma discontinuing their UHD65 projector you're looking at the £2400 for the BenQ W5700 and £3500 for the Optoma UHZ65 Laser projector and these prices are just for "fake" pixel-shifted 4K projectors. The cheapest native 4K projector on the market that I can gather is the Sony VPL-VW270ES, which will cost you just shy of £5000.

For a proper 4K you definitely need a good sturdy projector stand, I personally prefer a DIY wall mounted shelf as opposed to a dedicated ceiling or wall projector mount as they will attach to the bottom of the projector and you have to remove the projector from the mount in order to change the bulb, which is always a monumental faff if you don't have someone in the house to help you. A shelf makes all that very easy and a one man job. I personally recommend you get some sturdy wall mounted bench brackets and attach a piece of cheap kitchen counter from Ikea (which is what I did, I now have a shelf that I can actually sit on and it should hold with the 20kg projector as well).

What size screen are you looking at? If you haven't decided then let medecide for you: Go with the largest size possible that will fit on your wall! You go smaller and I guarantee after a week of sitting and watching your funky new projector you will be thinking to yourself "I could've gone for a bigger screen"!

Are you going to paint and light control your room? I recommend you go with a matt black paint for the ceiling and a black or dark brown carpet and walls. You'll need a way to block light from any windows as well. Usually black out blinds alone do a crap job of blocking all light, so you'll need black out blinds and black out curtains. A french curtain rail that curves in so you can draw the curtains flush against the wall are also the best for making sure no light leaks through.

I mention all this because the problem with 4K projectors is getting the brightness value needed for HDR, unless of course money is no object and you're thinking of ordering a more high-end model (that would probabky have to be north of £10000 for good HDR) then you need to reduce the light leakage/reflection of the room for sure to get the most from your projector's HDR mode.

Last edited by Shingster; 22-02-2021 at 04:52.
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Old 22-02-2021, 06:56   #3
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Some good advice from Shingster. A few more thoughts -

- stick to 1080, and invest the savings in better audio and a quality screen?
- plan to (almost) fill 1 complete wall with the image.
- full blackout is not important with bright content like Pixar and Ghibli, but essential for horror and similar (can watch after sunset anyway).
- matt black for everything is the way to go, but obviously looks very odd ... I imagine that curtains around the walls would work quite well, that you could draw back to make the room look more normal.
- pay to calibrate ? No need, unless you're spending £10k+ for someone to do everything.
- all the cables are a pain in the ass - plan your setup carefully. (I was very lucky with our setup as everything coincidentally fell into place).
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Old 22-02-2021, 11:12   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shingster View Post
You're aware of how much 4K projectors cost, right? With Optoma discontinuing their UHD65 projector you're looking at the £2400 for the BenQ W5700 and £3500 for the Optoma UHZ65 Laser projector and these prices are just for "fake" pixel-shifted 4K projectors. The cheapest native 4K projector on the market that I can gather is the Sony VPL-VW270ES, which will cost you just shy of £5000.

For a proper 4K you definitely need a good sturdy projector stand, I personally prefer a DIY wall mounted shelf as opposed to a dedicated ceiling or wall projector mount as they will attach to the bottom of the projector and you have to remove the projector from the mount in order to change the bulb, which is always a monumental faff if you don't have someone in the house to help you. A shelf makes all that very easy and a one man job. I personally recommend you get some sturdy wall mounted bench brackets and attach a piece of cheap kitchen counter from Ikea (which is what I did, I now have a shelf that I can actually sit on and it should hold with the 20kg projector as well).

What size screen are you looking at? If you haven't decided then let medecide for you: Go with the largest size possible that will fit on your wall! You go smaller and I guarantee after a week of sitting and watching your funky new projector you will be thinking to yourself "I could've gone for a bigger screen"!

Are you going to paint and light control your room? I recommend you go with a matt black paint for the ceiling and a black or dark brown carpet and walls. You'll need a way to block light from any windows as well. Usually black out blinds alone do a crap job of blocking all light, so you'll need black out blinds and black out curtains. A french curtain rail that curves in so you can draw the curtains flush against the wall are also the best for making sure no light leaks through.

I mention all this because the problem with 4K projectors is getting the brightness value needed for HDR, unless of course money is no object and you're thinking of ordering a more high-end model (that would probabky have to be north of £10000 for good HDR) then you need to reduce the light leakage/reflection of the room for sure to get the most from your projector's HDR mode.

Thank you for the info above. Yes I am aware of the price and can justify it because I haven't upgraded for 12 years now. I believe I can fit a 110 inch screen . I knew I would need to get some black out blinds. One wall is a dark brown like colour the other though is beige . It didn't cross my mind though about painting the celling, which is currently white . Yes I have seen some of these projectors coming in at 20kg wondering if I can get away with putting it on a wardrobe
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Old 22-02-2021, 11:25   #5
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Some good advice from Shingster. A few more thoughts -

- stick to 1080, and invest the savings in better audio and a quality screen?
- plan to (almost) fill 1 complete wall with the image.
- full blackout is not important with bright content like Pixar and Ghibli, but essential for horror and similar (can watch after sunset anyway).
- matt black for everything is the way to go, but obviously looks very odd ... I imagine that curtains around the walls would work quite well, that you could draw back to make the room look more normal.
- pay to calibrate ? No need, unless you're spending £10k+ for someone to do everything.
- all the cables are a pain in the ass - plan your setup carefully. (I was very lucky with our setup as everything coincidentally fell into place).
Was thinking if I was to upgrade everything then I was considering the Samsung centre speaker route. It still has the rear speakers and subs but no need for speaker cables and get excellent reviews. I think I would pay the extra for the 4k, I think that there's is enough content to justify it and because the TV I have had for the past 12 years is 1080p which I intend to keep and use for day time TV , news etc, the projector is to be used for movies then perhaps the football and gaming . But yes I clearly need to consider the celling and something to cover the wall.
The only thing I was thinking is that I might be a little late to the game with 4K and that 8K equipment is now here, though there still seems to be little content for 8K .

Last edited by Masanevre; 22-02-2021 at 12:13.
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Old 22-02-2021, 16:19   #6
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You're not late in the game for 4K projection, 8K projection is probably going to be a pipe dream for non-millionaires for a few years yet (I think there's one on the market for almost $300,000!).

You're gonna have to consider how much noise the projector will make sitting on top of a wardrobe (because if you want to utilise HDR you're gonna have to run the lamp in HIGH mode, which means fan noise will be maximised), how much airflow it will get and how deep the wardrobe is because a 4K projector will be around 45-50cm long and then you're gonna need good clearance behind the projector for the vented air to be ejected.

The projector overheating is going to be a serious problem for you and it's the one thing you never read about in reviews, but your projector panel getting burned and discoloured over time is something most likely to happen if you use your projector a lot, let's say if you regularly watch more than one film back-to-back. I use my projector for film watching and playing games, etc, and can use it for 6hrs continuously some nights and both projectors I've owned have developed yellow patches in the image over time. This may be because I've always used Sony projectors because they are by far the quietest projectors on the market, but I suspect that comes at the cost of less efficient cooling by the less powerful fans. I once bought a JVC projector and had to trade it in because the noise it made even in LOW lamp mode was insane, it sounded like a friggin hoover!

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Old 22-02-2021, 16:59   #7
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Another thing to bear in mind is that your projector is gonna need periodic maintenance in order to maximise performance, the other thing you never read about in reviews is that you MUST clean out your air filter after at most a few hundred hours of use (TBH I would recommend every 100hrs or sooner). I once had the warranty on my first Sony voided because I hadn't changed the air filter because in the manual it tells you to change the air filter once the warning indicator comes up on screen. Foolproof, right? It would have been had that indicator been attached to a sensor warning me that the projector was overheating and not a simple timed indicator that appears on screen after 1500hrs of lamp usage, by which time my air filter had become completely clogged by dust and it overheated, leading to my first ruined projector panel! Sony refused to accept responsibility on their part for misleading instructions and refused to fix the issue because i "hadn't properly maintained the projector" (which would have meant they would have had to replace the panel, which costs about as much as the projector itself)

You've mentioned getting the projector calibrated, which is a good idea with a new projector, but projectors really need to be calibrated every few hundred hours because the properties of the bulb will change as you burn it in, so IF you really want a properly calibrated display you're better off buying a colorimeter and learning how to calibrate it yourself.

BTW This is what I meant when I suggested a French curtain rail earlier, they bend into the wall at the ends so you can pull the curtain flush against the wall. With a curtain like this and black out blinds you will only see light leakage above and below the curtains, which should be negligible. Light leaking out the side of curtains and onto the projector screen is the most damaging to image quality.

Last edited by Shingster; 22-02-2021 at 17:03.
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Old 22-02-2021, 17:41   #8
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I absolutely adore my home cinema setup.

I went the whole hog and right now have a 7.1.2 atmos setup with a 130" screen.

Projector is an Epson 7400. It's a pixel shifting projector so not really 4k, but don't just discount them out of hand. You can still get an absolutely fantastic picture from them.

I went even further though and built a dedicated home theatre pc and use MadVR to get the absolute best picture quality available. I used a colorimeter in conjuction with MadVR, 3DLuts and DisplayCal to get everything looking perfect.

Now that probably just sounds like a bunch of jargon to you so just be carefull, getting into home projection is a bit like falling down the rabbit hole
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Old 22-02-2021, 20:53   #9
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I wish my OH would let me get me projector but that doesn't stop me researching/dreaming about getting one.

- Unless you have a shed load of 4k content then think seriously about whether you really need 4k rather than just 1080p
- If you're going 4k, make sure it has a native resolution of 4k rather than can just upscale to 4k. Upscaling to 4k is fine at 50" but horrible at >100"
- Depending on room size & seating position, it is possible to get too big a screen
- Not sure about some of the prices being quoted, and again you need the room layout for it, but there are a host of very well reviewed 4k UST laser projectors for less than £3k; the Optoma, the Vava and the Xiaomi to name just a few. A laser projector also saves you time/money on bulb replacements
- Is this for movie watching, gaming or both ? Well reviewed projectors ( including the USTs I mentioned above ) score highly in one area but not necessarily the other. If it's not for gaming, poor input lag is not really important.
- And as others have said, light control in the room is crucial. TVs can pretty much cope with any amount of light pointed directly at them, projectors can't.

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Old 22-02-2021, 21:23   #10
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Quote:
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- If you're going 4k, make sure it has a native resolution of 4k rather than can just upscale to 4k. Upscaling to 4k is fine at 50" but horrible at >100"
I have to ask, where did you get this idea from?

The Epson mid range projectors at £2500 to £3000 are pixel shifting. They aren't true 4k.

However they give a fantastic picture and are extremely well regarded within the home cinema world.

Regardless of screen size.

Just check some reviews.

https://www.avforums.com/reviews/eps...r-review.17280

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Old 22-02-2021, 22:04   #11
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Quote:
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I have to ask, where did you get this idea from?

The Epson mid range projectors at £2500 to £3000 are pixel shifting. They aren't true 4k.

However they give a fantastic picture and are extremely well regarded within the home cinema world.

Regardless of screen size.

Just check some reviews.

https://www.avforums.com/reviews/eps...r-review.17280
Some may well look good/OK but it will never look as good as on a native 4k projector
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Old 22-02-2021, 22:47   #12
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Some may well look good/OK but it will never look as good as on a native 4k projector
It's nowhere near that simple though.

The biggest mistake people make when looking at projection is worrying about resolution. When in reality good 4k native projectors cost many thousands of pounds if you want a good picture.

Its all about compromise.

Light output from projectors is severely limited compared to say OLED. If your thinking about 4k you'll also have to consider HDR and the wider color gamut. In order to get that wider color gamut you need to use an extra color wheel and that cuts down on light output even more. Compromising HDR.

Unless you've got 5 grand to spare it's pointless worrying about native 4k.

If you don't have a bat cave your also unlikely to be able to make out the difference between a pixel shifting Epson and a native 4k high end JVC (the cream of the crop in home projection). This is because of the lower lumens from the JVCs.

It's just not true that you can't get an utterly fantastic picture at 130 inches with a pixel shift projector.

The best advice I can give to people is go and see a dealer for a proper demo. I spent hours traveling from Northumberland to Manchester to view mine.

The dealer had Epsons setup in a typical livingroom like environment with some light control and also had a high end 4k JVC setup in a bat cave.

Because of the lower light output from projectors its just really really hard to tell the difference unless you're willing to paint your ceiling and walls pitch black! The higher end projectors have better contrast ratios too, but again you'll struggle to see it without the bat cave.

Forgot to add anyone considering getting into projection needs to consider their choice of screen. It's hugely important.

For instance if light control is an issue you might want to look into React screens. If your going to spend 2 or 3 grand on the projector you can easily spend around a grand on a decent screen. Cheaping out on the screen means your just wasting your money.

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Old 22-02-2021, 22:54   #13
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Some may well look good/OK but it will never look as good as on a native 4k projector
That may be true Adam, but I'm willing to bet that these UST projectors, which are native 4K, probably don't look as good as a regular native 4K projector as well. There's always a trade off with projectors, and I suspect with UST it's gonna be the light factor. Saying that though, these UST projectors may look good enough that someone who hasn't experienced a conventional projector before may be well be happy with them.

Must admit I know very little about this topic though! Your posts have definitely opened my eyes to a new possible avenue as I'm looking to upgrade to 4K projection for the first time in the next year or so!

My original plan was to demo the Optoma UHD65 vs the UHZ65 and then the Sony VPL270ES, but COVID put a stop to that last year!

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Old 22-02-2021, 23:03   #14
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Another thing I've just thought of to bear in mind if you are thinking of native 4K projectors: Google "Sony projector lamp flicker".

Basically Sony have been posting some pretty impressive lamp life estimates on their projector bulbs for a few years now - I think the VPL-270ES claims 6,000hrs on LOW, which is much longer than JVC bulbs - but the reality is that ever since they starting making these long life bulbs their bulbs suffer from extreme flickering (and I do mean extreme) which may take a couple hundred hours in HIGH mode to defeat, but people are reporting that even this doesn't work for some bulbs. Sony response? "Don't use LOW mode".

SO basically Sony are falsely marketing their projectors. Many of their bulbs are not useable in LOW mode without getting extreme flickering.

I currently have a VPL-HW50ES, had it for a number of years and gone through three bulbs, each one has gotten progressively worse for flicker (all official bulbs). This latest one got so bad and so persistent that I'm now burning it in on HIGH mode for a hundred hours or so to see if that will work. It's completely ****** up, but this sums up Sony and their complete disregard for consumer rights and advertising standards.
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Old 22-02-2021, 23:25   #15
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I've just been doing some reading and it appears I'm a bit behind the times regarding UST projectors.

I blame covid for making me concentrate on work last year

They absolutely look like a great choice and I'm now reading up on the Epson LS500

The wife may not be happy.
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Old 22-02-2021, 23:27   #16
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I was hoping to goto a JVC 4k next.

UST does look really interesting though.
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Old 24-02-2021, 16:28   #17
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Has anyone done something different to their ceiling other than paint it black I.e used black paper or another material instead ?
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Old 24-02-2021, 22:36   #18
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The upscaling was a sort of a pedantic point but yes - most people probably won't notice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mevlock View Post
I was hoping to goto a JVC 4k next.

UST does look really interesting though.
USTs look awesome (in particular, for me, their setup and how much space they require or, rather, don't require e.g no more HDMI cables potentially running the length of the room) but there's no way I'd get away with buying one They are very dependent though, from what I can tell, on having a very flat screen/wall to project on; as even the slightest imperfection is magnified more given the much shorter throwing distance. They also IIRC need their own kind of ALR screen - compared to the normal projector - as the light source you want to project is now coming from directly below rather than the usual above.

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Old 25-02-2021, 07:36   #19
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Has anyone done something different to their ceiling other than paint it black I.e used black paper or another material instead ?
Not sure why you would want to, as painting would seem to be the easiest option by far. Have you ever tried to wallpaper a ceiling ??

Although for a tenner each, you could get a few of these for all round the room, and make a harem-boudoir ? >>

Non Iron Poly-Cotton Plain Dyed Flat Bed Sheet - King size

and stick em up with >> Thumb Tack 100pcs Black
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Old 25-02-2021, 15:41   #20
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Has anyone done something different to their ceiling other than paint it black I.e used black paper or another material instead ?
Technically using paper or black tiles that are velvety would be better than painting because they would be even less reflective than paint, but as driver says it's much more awkward work than painting! Just do what you need to do to make that ceiling dark because that's the one area where you don't really have options. With walls you can paint them white and use black curtains around the screen as a removable solution to having a bright room to live in but a dark room when needed.
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