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Old 21-05-2003, 09:13   #81
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And as a sidenote, John Wayne was famous for (among other things!) making disparaging remarks about Spaghetti Westerns.

The result? He and Howard Hawks came up with Rio Lobo, a rather nasty and vicious movie that rather cynically cashed in on the popularlity of Italian horse operas, without having any of the panache. Not my favourite Wayne western by a long way.

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Old 21-05-2003, 09:18   #82
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Originally posted by Rex Trueform
I say, from what you say, you may be interested in the forthcoming release of "The Crimson Pirate", a classic of its kind with Lancaster, in the company of circus side-kick Nick Cravat, at the peak of his acrobatic powers.

There aren’t that many actors who I’ll make time to watch in absolutely anything but Lancaster is one of them. From the same era Gregory Peck, Robert Mitchum & James Stewart can do no wrong IMO.

FYI swashbuckler Scaramouche available on the same day as Crimson Pirate.
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Old 21-05-2003, 09:50   #83
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Quote:
Originally posted by John Hodson
And as a sidenote, John Wayne was famous for (among other things!) making disparaging remarks about Spaghetti Westerns.

The result? He and Howard Hawks came up with Rio Lobo, a rather nasty and vicious movie that rather cynically cashed in on the popularlity of Italian horse operas, without having any of the panache. Not my favourite Wayne western by a long way.


I have also long thought that the good Duke's subsequent "Big Jake" owed a significant debt to the genre.

And I warrant that an influence or two may also certainly be detected in "The War Wagon", dating from as early as 1967 (the year in which all three of Leone's "Dollars" films were released in the US). The latter, of course, was directed by the likeable Burt Kennedy, who had previously made - in Alicante - the first "Magnificent Seven" sequel, and went on to make "The Deserter" (aka "The Devil's Backbone"; with one of Wayne's sons among a most oddball cast) and, albeit with British lolly, the Almería-shot "Hannie Caulder" (with an even more peculiar cast!).
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Old 21-05-2003, 10:00   #84
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Originally posted by jonathan.e
There aren’t that many actors who I’ll make time to watch in absolutely anything but Lancaster is one of them. From the same era Gregory Peck, Robert Mitchum & James Stewart can do no wrong IMO.
I am inclined to agree with you on Lancaster and Peck, and most certainly on Mitchum (who as late as the 1990s was, for example, the only redeeming feature of the loathsome "Cape Fear" rehash), but I must confess that, by and large, James Stewart gets my goat.

Jonathan, my dear chap, if I may recommend a couple of books to you for a change, John Mitchum's "Them Ornery Mitchum Boys" and Lee Server's "Baby, I Don't Care" make for fascinating reading.




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FYI swashbuckler Scaramouche available on the same day as Crimson Pirate.
Yes, noticed that. Jolly good news indeed.
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Old 21-05-2003, 10:07   #85
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Originally posted by Rex Trueform
but I must confess that, by and large, James Stewart gets my goat.
Rex, I'm shocked - and we were getting on so well...

Stewart and Anthony Mann's cycle of complex, psychological westerns in many ways lead the way for the Spaghetti Western (IMHO of course ).

Oh, and while I'm here - Vera Cruz

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Old 21-05-2003, 10:14   #86
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Rex, I'm shocked - and we were getting on so well...


That little bombshell (which is by no means facetious, I do assure you) never fails!

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Old 21-05-2003, 10:21   #87
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rex Trueform
Jonathan, my dear chap, if I may recommend a couple of books to you for a change, John Mitchum's "Them Ornery Mitchum Boys" and Lee Server's "Baby, I Don't Care" make for fascinating reading.

Thanks for that. Been meaning to seek out a good Mitchum biog and the latter sounds just the ticket.
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Old 21-05-2003, 10:31   #88
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Originally posted by jonathan.e
Thanks for that. Been meaning to seek out a good Mitchum biog and the latter sounds just the ticket.
My pleasure. Faber have reissued (unrevised) Server's splendid book in paperback, by the way, although I believe I spotted copies of the more desirable hardback being sold off in, for one, Soho's Original Bookstore (or whatever it is called, on Brewer Street) recently.

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Old 21-05-2003, 21:29   #89
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Quote:
Originally posted by John Hodson

Oh, and while I'm here - Vera Cruz
I would definitely agree there, a great little western and surely an inspiration for both the spaghetti's and also The Wild Bunch .
Great performance from Lancaster in a role as rather shady and untrustworthy character, and some great gunfights. The comedy elements are actually pretty good too.

Pick it up from HMV for a mere £6.99 asap, the disc is barebones but has a good anamorphic transfer (1.98:1 which i believe is the correct AR), mono sound and good cover art as well.
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Old 21-05-2003, 22:07   #90
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I have never really delved into American westerns the only ones I have seen are Unforgiven, The Wild Bunch and about half an hour of Rio Bravo. The latter I could not get into albeit I caught it an hour in on TCM and every one looked clean. I may check out some of the titles mentioned especially Vera Cruz because that sounds interesting and can be picked up quite cheap courtesy of Ghost Dog.

I have ordered the two DVD set of Vengeance from xploited and I will let you know what the transfer quality etc is like when I get it.

I have spotted three DVD release's of Lucio Fulci's spaghetti western Massacre Time with Franco Nero. I am quite interested in picking it up having liked the two other Fulci films I have seen Contraband and Four Of The Apocalypse. What do you chaps think of Massacre Time?

R2 Japan

R0 USA

R0 Germany (click ''westerns'' then scroll down)

I made a shocking discovery tonight,(don't read if easily shocked)
and the movie is great fun with a few spaghetti western actors popping up in bit roles.

Last edited by unlucky alf; 22-05-2003 at 08:16.
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Old 21-05-2003, 23:00   #91
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Oh Alf, now how are you going to spot the references that Leone makes to earlier westerns? The nods to Ford and Hawks, to High Noon, the homage that Morricone pays to Tiomkin (Tiomkin said 'stole', I prefer to believe Morricone).

Gary Cooper is magnificent in Vera Cruz; and if you don't like clean, he gets pretty mussed up by the end of High Noon (pretty good collectors edtion available BTW on R1). You have to view these westerns in context; they may seem cliched now, but their ideas were new and fresh at the time. It's only the guys that 'borrowed' their ideas that makes them seem cliched today. BTW, I mentioned Anthony Mann's westerns earlier - newly released in R1, they are well worth a shot.

Towards the end of his life Leone was going to make (but didn't) a mini-series called Colt - An American Legend, following a handgun as it passed from owner to owner. Sounds a little like Winchester '73 to me...

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Old 22-05-2003, 08:14   #92
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Quote:
Originally posted by John Hodson
Oh Alf, now how are you going to spot the references that Leone makes to earlier westerns? The nods to Ford and Hawks, to High Noon, the homage that Morricone pays to Tiomkin (Tiomkin said 'stole', I prefer to believe Morricone).
I don't, they go right over my head . I am quite newbie when it comes to movies, I only got into them about a year and a half ago when I saw a DVD player in a store and was amazed by the visual quality. I brought one a couple of weeks later and discovered the forums which has helped me discover so many films that I would of never seen if I never got my DVD player. Before that the only movies I had been exposed to were Die Hard and The Terminator. I now have a wish list with about two hundred movies on I want to buy and I am adding to my wish list each week. Now you know Alfred's dirty secret. Thanks for the recommendations I have added them to my list.

PS: Great sig.

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Old 22-05-2003, 09:02   #93
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That's no dirty little secret; it's quite enviable. A whole world of cinema is waiting for you out there, bright and shiny and new.

I can't remember discovering Ford for the first time; I saw them first when I was too young to appreciate the pure cinema, when I had a cowboy hat, a chrome cap-gun, and I road off into the sunset on an imaginary horse. It took years before The Searchers moved me to tears, before I felt every punch that landed on Shane's face & I stood up a cheered for Nathan Brittles, years still before my eyes widened in awe of Pat Garrett & Billy The Kid.

And you really have to see Henry Fonda in My Darling Clementine before the sight of him in a yellow duster, striding out of the sage brush, makes you yell "My God, that's Henry Fonda!"

Enviable position Alf.

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Old 22-05-2003, 09:53   #94
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Originally posted by unlucky alf
I have ordered the two DVD set of Vengeance from xploited and I will let you know what the transfer quality etc is like when I get it.
Please do. I am sorely tempted by this and, from the same supplier, that double Morrisey-Margheriti-"Warhol"-Kier-Dallesandro set spotted by BenH.

Dare I ask, is Xploited perchance a "customs-friendly" retailer? And is the carriage charge of $6 applied per item or per order? (Details are sketchy on the website.)


Quote:
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I made a shocking discovery tonight,(don't read if easily shocked)








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Old 22-05-2003, 09:54   #95
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Originally posted by John Hodson
Towards the end of his life Leone was going to make (but didn't) a mini-series called Colt - An American Legend, following a handgun as it passed from owner to owner. Sounds a little like Winchester '73 to me...
Interesting! Any relation, do you happen to know, to either this or this? From beneath drooping eyelids, I have seen an episode or two of the latter on the goggle box in the small hours, but they were nothing special. Had they been in different hands...

Of course, all may indeed have taken their cue from "Winchester '73".
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Old 22-05-2003, 09:57   #96
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Originally posted by unlucky alf
I am quite newbie when it comes to movies
Lucky you, my dear chap!

You cannot go wrong with any of the American westerns kindly recommended above. I should also urge you to give "The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance" a spin. Ford's film is a veritable masterwork, with John Wayne and Lee Marvin - and, I grant one and all, James Stewart - in tip-top form, and is currently available in an immaculate transfer from Play for a mere £7.49, pilgrim.

If I read your tastes correctly (i.e. much the same as mine!), I should also think that "The Professionals" should please you no end. Hugely entertaining, perfectly cast and beautifully made (with cinematography by Conrad Hall) - and another obvious influence on the Italian western - it has been available for a number of years in a spiffing transfer in R1. Coincidentally, it is set to be released in this neck of the woods next month in PAL and at a better price to boot. It is listed at Play for £9.99.

My three most-wanted-on-DVD American westerns are Peckinpah's "Ride the High Country" and "Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid" (by far my favourites by the great man, and both of which are rumoured to be part of a box set undergoing perparation by Warner in the US) and William A. Fraker's "Monte Walsh" (not to be confused with this Tom Selleck rehash ( ) on Deep Discount's pre-order list. I say, you should have seen me jump for joy when I saw the title, only to learn the awful truth... )
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Old 22-05-2003, 09:59   #97
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Quote:
Originally posted by John Hodson
That's no dirty little secret; it's quite enviable.
Well said, that man!

Quote:
Originally posted by John Hodson
my eyes widened in awe of Pat Garrett & Billy The Kid.
And jolly well said again, sir!
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Old 22-05-2003, 10:03   #98
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Originally posted by John Hodson
And you really have to see Henry Fonda in My Darling Clementine before the sight of him in a yellow duster, striding out of the sage brush, makes you yell "My God, that's Henry Fonda!"
I say, the tale of the contact lenses still brings a smile to my face.

In preparing for the unspeakable character, Fonda had quietly taken the trouble to have a pair of brown contact lenses made up. Leone was agast at the revelation. It was Fonda he wanted to see, and Fonda he wanted viewers to see.
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Old 22-05-2003, 10:05   #99
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It is listed at Play for £9.99.
A whole pound cheaper @ Splash pardner.
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Old 22-05-2003, 10:11   #100
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Originally posted by jonathan.e
A whole pound cheaper @ Splash pardner.
All the better, pilgrim.

Or, in this case, [Tom Doniphon] Play's the toughest DVD retailer south of the Picketwire - next to Splash. [/Tom Donophin]
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