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Old 10-09-2007, 18:15   #61
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Originally Posted by andybhoy View Post
It was all a bit panto. It certainly wasn't "dark".
.
the bit where loads of the population was killed off was sort of (although you didn't see it) but the Panto-master did kill the scene with the OTT
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Old 10-09-2007, 18:25   #62
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the bit where loads of the population was killed off was sort of (although you didn't see it) but the Panto-master did kill the scene with the OTT
"OH NO HE DIDN'T!"
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Old 10-09-2007, 18:37   #63
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Originally posted by fivebyfive
thats not true at all, people liked the little bit of darker moments in Human nature and Blink was not dark at all, maybe a bit scary for younger people
edit: I think most people want a balanced show


Last of the Time Lords was darker at first but it had gollum/tinkerbell Dr saving the world then hitting the giant reset button, so it never happened
Judging from the AI figures for the entirety of Series 3 I would say that people seemed to enjoy it immensely regardless of whether the episodes were light or dark, it only seems to be people on here who want a balanced show. But I actually think Series 3 was quite a well balanced show with just the right quantity of light and dark, although I have to agree with RTD's assessment that it may have stepped just a little too far into the darker territory at the end. That was not actually a problem as far as I was concerned as I love those final 6 episodes, but I can see why RTD feels that he may have alienated some of the viewing audience with this direction.

As for the giant reset button at the end of "Last of the Time Lords" well that may have been the case for most of humanity but for the main protaganists of the episode (the Doctor, Martha, Jack, the Master, Francine, Tish, Clive and Lucy) all the events they witnessed did take place and they all remember them so it was not really a giant reset button.
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Old 10-09-2007, 18:49   #64
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it only seems to be people on here who want a balanced show.
before you said everyone wanted all "dark and gritty"

Quote:
But I actually think Series 3 was quite a well balanced show with just the right quantity of light and dark,
not really

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As for the giant reset button at the end of "Last of the Time Lords" well that may have been the case for most of humanity but for the main protaganists of the episode (the Doctor, Martha, Jack, the Master, Francine, Tish, Clive and Lucy) all the events they witnessed did take place and they all remember them so it was not really a giant reset button.
it was still a giant reset button,

Last edited by fivebyfive; 11-09-2007 at 18:40. Reason: stupid typo
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Old 10-09-2007, 18:55   #65
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3 million people buy the sun, so "AI" figures don't mean anything to me. In fact that fact that LotTL gets higher ratings that the likes of Blink just invalidates them for me.

It's like someone saying "Well, Dickens was a decent writer but I really think Jilly Cooper was better".

Last edited by andybhoy; 10-09-2007 at 18:57.
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Old 11-09-2007, 18:26   #66
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Quote:
Originally posted by andybhoy
3 million people buy the sun, so "AI" figures don't mean anything to me. In fact that fact that LotTL gets higher ratings that the likes of Blink just invalidates them for me.
I think the fact that "Last of the Time Lords" was the series conclusion indicates why it got higher ratings than "Blink". Anyway it normally seems to be the case that an episode that get's higher ratings usually get's a lower AI due to the fact that many of those watching may not be those who would normally watch it and therefore would mark it lower.

Still even if you don't think much of the AI figures, those in the television industry take a great deal of interest in them and the fact that Series 3 had the most consistenly high AI figures for any of the three series aired so far (no episode had an AI below 85) would certainly have been seen as something of a success. Especially given that before Series 3 began it was being talked of as the make or break series seeing as Billie had left. The fact that it performed even better was great news for the BBC.
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Old 11-09-2007, 18:33   #67
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I'm not talking about whether something is seen as a success or not, I'm talking about whether it's any good ot not. Some of the most popular and highest rated programs on uktv are utterly dire. That's why the AI means nothing to me, why the numbe rof people watching eastenders means nothing to me, or the number of people reading the daily star.

Who is anything but that - however, the difference between the good episodes and the bad ones, is like night and day. That doesn't appear to be getting measured by the "AI" or feedback threads on the likes of OG.
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Old 11-09-2007, 18:44   #68
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Quote:
Originally posted by andybhoy
I'm not talking about whether something is seen as a success or not, I'm talking about whether it's any good ot not.
Well, as far as I am concerned, Series 3 of "Doctor Who" never failed to entertain. Even the less good episodes like "The Shakespeare Code" and "Daleks in Manhattan/Evolution of the Daleks" were a good deal more entertaining than a lot of other stuff that was on the telly at the same time.
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Old 11-09-2007, 19:05   #69
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The Shakespeare code was one of the better episodes - certainly in the top 4 or 5 of S3. The Dalek ones, well, they may have been better than a lot of the telly on at the same time - the fact is that british telly is almost uniformly tripe. So it's not much of a compliment.

If the show can deal out the quality of Family of Blood and Blink, then most of the 13 episodes should be of that standard. They were head and shoulders better than the dalek episodes (which in terms of quality would be right down there with the very worst of the "old who" and not acceptable in this day and age).

At the time the eps were aired, I skated over the many faults (particularly of RTD's episodes), and just enjoyed them as much as I can. I'd rather have high quality tv evey week though - and hopefully fewer rtd pantofests will mean just that.
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Old 12-09-2007, 18:06   #70
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Quote:
Originally posted by andybhoy
The Shakespeare code was one of the better episodes - certainly in the top 4 or 5 of S3.
I have to disagree there, "The Shakespeare Code" was unfortunatly below average and a bit of a disappointment considering it came from the pen of Gareth Roberts. It was still enjoyable enough, I just feel it never really had any urgency about it and the plot rather meandered to it's conclusion. The Dalek 2 parter may not have been the greatest "Doctor Who" story ever but as a wonderful hark back to the Dalek story's of old it was still in my view a lot more enjoyable than Shakespeare.

"Human Nature/The Family of Blood" and "Blink" are certainly head and shoulders above Shakespeare and the Dalek 2 parter I agree, but there are still many episodes in Series 3 which come somewhat closer to the heights that those 3 episodes attained.
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Old 12-09-2007, 18:13   #71
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I agree with andybhoy - I thought "The Shakespeare Code" was just good fun.

I thought the Dalek episodes and the awful final three were the low-lights of the series - I think the problem is, both the Daleks and The Master are iconic characters, and the tone and use is just all wrong in New Who. They are just trivialised IMHO.

I reckon S3 is my favorite so far though, bonus points for getting rid of Rose!

Last edited by puddleduck; 12-09-2007 at 18:14.
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Old 12-09-2007, 18:32   #72
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The Shakespeare Code was fun, but could have benefited from being longer to build up the suspense.

Daleks in Manhatten on the other hand was a stinking festering turd of an episode. Two episodes too long IMO.

Last edited by thescrounger; 12-09-2007 at 18:36.
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Old 12-09-2007, 19:05   #73
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Daleks in Manhatten on the other hand was a stinking festering turd of an episode. Two episodes too long IMO.
I think you are being too kind about the episode
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Old 12-09-2007, 20:14   #74
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I'm really struggling to see how the woefully poor Dalek story in S3 relates at all in any meaningful way to the older Who stories whatsoever over and above the hidden base concept that found its way into many of the previous classic Dalek tales. The notion that Evolution of the Daleks is superior to the generally solid Shakespeare Code is completely bewildering.

I'm buying into this trivialisation of the Daleks though. In S1, a simple soldier Dalek became an unstoppable killing machine, the Doctor's biggest fear being that it would get out into the open and massacre millions. Because that's what Daleks do.

Fast forward two years and we've got the four cleverest Daleks of all-time skulking about in the 1930s not doing much when really and truly they should be rulers of the world. You'd think that this would be a much stronger basis for rebuilding the Dalek race. The entire premise of the whole story is just fundamentally flawed.

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Old 13-09-2007, 08:11   #75
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Why did this article remind me of the Dr. Who threads?

http://www.somethingawful.com/d/news...-criticism.php
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Old 13-09-2007, 10:21   #76
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Uncanny

It reminds me of the eternal Star Wars debate, only this is much more important of course.
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Old 13-09-2007, 20:15   #77
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Originally Posted by andybhoy View Post
3 million people buy the sun, so "AI" figures don't mean anything to me. In fact that fact that LotTL gets higher ratings that the likes of Blink just invalidates them for me.

It's like someone saying "Well, Dickens was a decent writer but I really think Jilly Cooper was better".
Well said. AI figures are just a way for fan-boys (and BBC execs) to justify their opinion. They are meaningless other than to say you can provide any old crap and people will watch it. They appreciate it because there's nothing better.

Besides it's just fad figures. What would be more relevant is a long term statistic to show just how people love a particular episode over time. Does it date well and work well on repeat viewing. Is it a classic?
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