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Old 03-09-2007, 20:16   #21
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The last two episodes had a couple of sinister themes, but in terms of overall tone I'm struggling to understand how they were any different than the episodes he describes as "fun".

It also somewhat bizarre that strong drama like Blink and Human Nature should be labelled as "dark" at all
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Old 03-09-2007, 21:11   #22
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Perhaps not dark, but certainly I think they alienated part of the core audience - children.

My son refuses to watch Blink again and, whilst he will watch it, Human Nature/Family of Blood doesn't appeal to him as much as some of the more mainstream episodes, possibly because he doesn't really understand what's going on.

Personally, I thought all three episodes were superb and as close to "perfect" Doctor Who as they could be. But then, I'm a lifelong fan who had the crap scared out of him by the Zygons and Eldrad's disembodied hand-in-a-tupperware box as a kid.

Whilst I'll probably miss the show in 2009, I think it will be a breath of fresh air when it returns, presumably with a new lead and a new production team. Not that I dislike Russell Davies at all, I think he worked wonders bringing the show back. Plus, he has been known in the past to "mislead" the fans. Remember, he stated on several occasions how much he disliked the Master and didn't want him to return to the show.
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Old 03-09-2007, 21:36   #23
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Not that I dislike Russell Davies at all, I think he worked wonders bringing the show back.
Hear hear! Lets not forget without him there would be NO Doctor Who as we know it. Although I'm not a big fan of his scripts we should still be grateful for all his hard work that has gone into the last three seasons.
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Old 03-09-2007, 21:43   #24
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Hear hear! Lets not forget without him there would be NO Doctor Who as we know it.
What do you mean?
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Old 04-09-2007, 00:14   #25
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Originally Posted by RTD
I’m sure that fandom was luxuriating in that run of ‘Human Nature’, ‘The Family of Blood’, then ‘Blink’, which was very dark, and then the darkness of bringing back the Master. Fandom might think that’s the way forward...
well looks like my 8-year old daughter has just been inducted into fandom. She (plus the wife and I) loved those episodes. She's always asking in we can watch 'Blink' again.
RTD really is a pillock.
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Old 04-09-2007, 00:54   #26
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What do you mean?
What I mean is that I believe without RTD drive, commitment and love of Dr Who we wouldn't be enjoying the overall fantastic last three series. OK they are FAR from perfect, and his scripts are mostly the low points, but it could have been so much worse.
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Old 04-09-2007, 06:15   #27
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Im sure in this interview or another interview he goes on to say Series 4 will not be all light hearted fun & that it was the run of the 'dark' stories rather than the stories themselves (apart from the ones he wrote) he wants to change.
The final run of 42, Human Nature/Family of Blood, Blink, & Utopia/Sound of Drums/Last of Time Lords were just to dark for him & he felt that it needed a 'Smith & Jones' in there somewhere & he should of had a more 'lighter' final along the lines of Bad Wolf/Parting of the Ways & Army of Ghosts/Doomsday.
At no point in the interviews I have read has he critised Human Nature & Blink but instead mentions his final 3 episodes.
The impression I have always got is that there will still be dark episodes but he wants them more evenly balanced.


Quite surprised by the announcement of the specials & Series 5, as that dont usually want to talk about anything other than the series they are working on.
Not to sure if its a good idea or not, as I said when this sort of rumor was first mentioned in the Series 4 thread.

There are rumors that shooting wise they will be filming the 2008 Xmas special straight after they finish Series 4 filming & will wrap around April/May 08.
The 3 x 2009 specials will be filmed in one block once Tennat has finished his Shakespeare bit sometime around December 08 to April 09, with the specials to be shown at Easter 09, September 09 with the final one at Xmas 09.
The same rumors say that the 5th series could start filming as early as May 09 so it could star in early January 2010.
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Old 04-09-2007, 12:25   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RTD
I’m sure that fandom was luxuriating in that run of ‘Human Nature’, ‘The Family of Blood’, then ‘Blink’, which was very dark, and then the darkness of bringing back the Master. Fandom might think that’s the way forward... but it’s not. Next year we’ll be pulling back from the darkness. Absolutely. The greatest mistake with TV drama is to presume that darkness=good. And if you're expecting Doctor Who to head further that way just because of the success of ‘Human Nature’ onwards, that’s not going to happen.
I like the way he tries to tie his final three episodes into the "run of excellent episodes" started with Human Nature.
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Old 04-09-2007, 13:59   #29
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RTD is just becoming so synonymous with JNT in my head, JNT produced WHo from the end of TOm Bakers era to the end full stop. Is othught of asbeing the best and worst producer of WHo and towards the end of letting the show descend towards pantomime, and now with RTD we've had farting aliens, Peter Kay and then Catherine Tate for a whole season and an announcement of stories that work like Blink is not the way to go but lighthearted colourful pap is. Blink by the way laso managed to encapsulate some lightheartedness in the Doctor coming out of the TARDIS with a bow and arrow. But obviously thats not enough, but its what I'd like, decent sincere stories with the gentle touch of humour other than ambarrassing fartfests where we have to ignore the facts the plots just don't hang together under the slightest scrutiny.

Rant over.
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Old 04-09-2007, 14:06   #30
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From memory nobody was actually killed in Blink (well two people dies of old age after apparently happy lives if you want to be pedantic) where the 'breezy' episodes were far more gruesome and bloodthirsty.
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Old 04-09-2007, 14:25   #31
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perhaps after seeing Torchwood s1, we are lucky that RTD doesn't want to do HIS version of 'dark' in who.
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Old 04-09-2007, 14:36   #32
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From memory nobody was actually killed in Blink (well two people dies of old age after apparently happy lives if you want to be pedantic) where the 'breezy' episodes were far more gruesome and bloodthirsty.
Yep, in fact a lot of Blink was pretty funny (and not just cheap gags), it probably had a couple of the scariest scenes in the new Doctor Who, but I wouldn't have called the tone of the episode "dark", in fact it was probably one of the funnier episodes. Human Nature and Family of Blood probably do qualify more as "dark", though a lot of that came from the setting more than anything else (which would probably go over the heads of younger viewers) with a lot of references to the upcoming first world war etc. Though the death of John Smith and the fate of the family were more obvious.

Wouldn't have said there was much dark about the final three episodes though, the fate of the human race was about the only thing that would qualify, the rest was largely pantomime.
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Old 04-09-2007, 15:51   #33
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not much breathing space though is it?

2007 - Xmas Special RTD
2008 - Series 4 RTD
2008 - Xmas Special RTD
2009 - Easter Special RTD
2009 - Summer Special RTD
2009 - Xmas Special RTD
2010 - Series 5 New Team
3 specials instead of 13 episodes. It will give them several extra months to clear the decks.
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Old 04-09-2007, 19:27   #34
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Its been confirmed now why Series 5 has been delayed until 2010, It appears that Tennant wil be playing Hamlet on stage with the Royal Shakespere Comany between Next July and November which is generally when they would start filming the next series. There is also more speculation that Tennant will quite the role though after the 3 specials making may for a new doctor, but I guess that is yet to be confirmed.
I am a little disapointed, but I was worried that Dr Who would finish alltogether after Series 4, so news of a Series 5 is still good news
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Old 04-09-2007, 19:48   #35
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Haven't we missed the good part to all this... that RTD will be gone at some point in a couple of years and, according to rumours Stephen Moffat is being mentioned as the guy to take over!!! :-)
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Old 08-09-2007, 13:33   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by neilalford
I like the way he tries to tie his final three episodes into the "run of excellent episodes" started with Human Nature.
Why not, those final three episodes are superb television which improve immensely on rewatching and personally I thought that "Last of the Time Lords" was pretty poor when I first saw it back in June.

Quote:
Originally posted by achookang
Haven't we missed the good part to all this... that RTD will be gone at some point in a couple of years and, according to rumours Stephen Moffat is being mentioned as the guy to take over!!! :-)
It is not necessarily a good thing that RTD will be leaving "Doctor Who" in a couple of years after all it is his vision that has made this show so successful over the last three years. And the Steven Moffat are at the moment just that, rumours and may turn out to be completely unfounded. However, if Mr Moffat does take over from RTD you can bet your life that as he is a great supporter of RTD and has praised the RTD scripts for the show the format is not necessarily going to change that much from what it is now.

Last edited by DarkAvenger; 08-09-2007 at 13:33.
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Old 08-09-2007, 13:51   #37
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Those last 3 episodes aren't in remotely the same class as the previous 3. Lumping them into the same catgory is at best selfish and insulting.

As for keeping the format - the format is good. Nothing wrong with the format. The problem has always been the 1 or 2 writers who are heavily overrated. RTD takes up half of the episodes, and is half as good as most of the other writers. So Moffat would be a huge improvement.

If RTD leaves in a couple of years, it will be the best thing that has happened to the show since the bbc brought it back. RTD did a decent job but this fawning over him, like only he could have done it, is just plain silly.
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Old 08-09-2007, 13:54   #38
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one thing i don't get - if tennant is doing S4, then 3 specials then leaving - why not just have him leave at the end of S4 allowing you to do a full S5 with a new Doctor.

I realise RTD is also probably going, and Phil Collinson too - but that is just 2 people in a very large team - the existing writers, directors, SFX crews don't have to change. If they were thinking of someone like Stephen Moffat to take over RTD (which i strongly suspect) theres no reason why they can't hit the ground running with S5 pretty quickly.

Unless of course this is all because Tennant isn't leaving, but just needed time off next year meaning he couldn't do a full series - THEN it all makes sense to me....
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Old 08-09-2007, 13:56   #39
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However, if Mr Moffat does take over from RTD you can bet your life that as he is a great supporter of RTD and has praised the RTD scripts for the show the format is not necessarily going to change that much from what it is now.
To be fair, RTD is his boss - if you want to keep on working there - you don't tell everyone the boss is a terrible writer do you ?
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Old 08-09-2007, 15:31   #40
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To be fair, RTD is his boss - if you want to keep on working there - you don't tell everyone the boss is a terrible writer do you ?
But Moffat doesn't think RTD is a terrible writer; he thinks he's a terrific writer.

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What do you mean?
I presume he means that Who was never coming back unless with RTD at the helm.

This discussion has come up before (I can't remember who with) but if Russ hadn't been interested I'm 99.9% certain we wouldn't be talking about it here now. Except, the Beeb knew he was interested 'cos he'd told them often enough. There was no shortlist of other potential showrunners had he declined -- they wanted to work with him.

His comments about S3 being dark in places and S4 being lighter as a result -- no big deal really -- have certainly proved manna from heaven to his critics.

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