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Old 27-12-2005, 22:32   #61
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Originally Posted by Grandmaster
The ending was nothing more than an extremely thinly veiled pop at New Labour - its war-like aggression and power-crazed paranoia. While personally I agree wholeheartedly with what Davies is saying, I simply don't think it's the place for this kind of thing. Political commentary works best within Sci-Fi when used in allegory.
I didn't see Davies as pushing any sort of agenda, I just think he drew some near parallels and left it to the viewer to make up thier mind. The PM's first reaction is that she won't let the President 'Turn this into another war', but by the end of the episode after seeing the nature of what she was up against she opts to take offensive action.
The Doctor disagrees, and one could argue that since the show is called 'Doctor Who' then he's always right but perhaps not, perhaps he's slightly flawed himself. The PM provides the case for attacking them, it's not as if she's painted as a particulary nasty character in the show, who therefore must be wrong, but rather a sympathetic character who is doing what she thinks is right.

If you take the stance that the Doctor must always be right then I can understand it, but I just read it as a difference of opinion, and frankly I'm not sure who was right. I have a feeling this theme might re-appear in the future, perhaps with the Doctor facing unwanted consequences of his perhaps overly compassionate nature.
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Old 27-12-2005, 23:34   #62
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Originally Posted by AndyWilson
"I'm not ginger am I?"

That must have been a pop at Billie's ex husband Chris Evans!

Really liked the new doctor.

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Old 28-12-2005, 03:34   #63
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Originally Posted by Chief Brody
Actually i've heard that the transmission of the next series may be split in two, to avoid DW colliding with the World Cup. Run it before Easter (to avoid the World Cup) and the series will eventually catch up on itself (filming goes on till April this time with several months of F/X/postproduction etc required). Run it in the same late March- mid June slot and Who runs into the World Cup, with games every Saturday in the 7 o'clock slot. So i wouldn't be surprised to see Who broadcast from Easter - late May and then from July-end August. Just speculation at this point though...........
Someone told me earlier that it might start in early March instead, which might be based on the same sort of 'avoid the world cup' speculation, although I think they started filming later than last year so that might be pushing it.
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Old 28-12-2005, 06:44   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandmaster
The ending was nothing more than an extremely thinly veiled pop at New Labour - its war-like aggression and power-crazed paranoia. While personally I agree wholeheartedly with what Davies is saying, I simply don't think it's the place for this kind of thing. Political commentary works best within Sci-Fi when used in allegory.

I simply think it leaves a sour taste in the mouth for a writer to so blatantly expound his beliefs about the current political status quo within a show like Doctor Who.
How is it a pop at New Labour when the scenario - destroying an enemy vessel as it was moving away - was more akin to the sinking of the Belgrano by the Thatcher government during the Falklands War than anything else?

It was an anti-aggression message. On Christmas Day. Yeah, not the place for that sort of thing at all.
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Old 28-12-2005, 07:27   #65
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Old 28-12-2005, 09:41   #66
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The ending was nothing more than an extremely thinly veiled pop at New Labour - its war-like aggression and power-crazed paranoia. While personally I agree wholeheartedly with what Davies is saying, I simply don't think it's the place for this kind of thing. Political commentary works best within Sci-Fi when used in allegory.

But "Doctor Who" has been doing this for years. I don't see how the Christmas episode was any different.
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Old 28-12-2005, 10:26   #67
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Was i the only one who thought it was woeful?

The story was just weak, why couldnt they have picked a half decent alien race for the xmas special? I was expecting the beeb to really go for it but instead we got 1 hour of awful effects, when will they learn to concentrate on the story and use the effects in moderation and do them well.

A big disappointment for me!!
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Old 28-12-2005, 13:16   #68
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I thought the effects were fairly fab. Certainly the best sfx we've seen from a British show to date.

Which ones in particulr does everyone seem to have a problem with.
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Old 28-12-2005, 13:27   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greig
How is it a pop at New Labour when the scenario - destroying an enemy vessel as it was moving away - was more akin to the sinking of the Belgrano by the Thatcher government during the Falklands War than anything else?

It was an anti-aggression message. On Christmas Day. Yeah, not the place for that sort of thing at all.
It was a pop at New Labour in general and more specifically the Doctor's way of unsettling Harriet Jones was essentially a word-for-word copy of the language used to unsettle Tony Blair. Describing him as 'tired' causing a huge media feeding frenzy which was reflected in the episode.

The Belgrano point is well taken, but Harriet Jones is a Labour Prime Minister which has been evident from all of her appearances.

I notice you are trotting out Davies' line about the Christmas Special having an anti-aggression message, which makes me chuckle considering that the Doctor won the day by defeating the Sycorax leader in battle and then basically executing him fairly ruthlessly when he betrayed his own ethics system. Happy Christmas to you too!

I also think that Davies has said that now the Doctor is the last remaining Timelord with no other time policing in place, he will be acting far more ruthlessly from now on. Ironic that he chose his much-lauded 'peace message' to show that, eh?

My point is simply this - blatant politicising in Doctor Who is just a bit tacky. Turning an institution like Doctor Who into a political vehicle for Russell T Davies is rather sad IMO and certainly isn't anything like what we saw in the Pertwee years

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Old 28-12-2005, 13:38   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike
The ending was nothing more than an extremely thinly veiled pop at New Labour - its war-like aggression and power-crazed paranoia. While personally I agree wholeheartedly with what Davies is saying, I simply don't think it's the place for this kind of thing. Political commentary works best within Sci-Fi when used in allegory.

But "Doctor Who" has been doing this for years. I don't see how the Christmas episode was any different.
Which episodes can you recall which directly attack the policies of the Government then? How many times have UK politicians (let alone a Prime Minister) actually featured in an episode? The odd faceless minister in the early Pertwee stories and that's it - certainly nothing like we're seeing now.

Davies has done it twice in the course of one year, first with the WMD malarkey and 9/11 overtones in 'World War Three', and now in this special.
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Old 28-12-2005, 13:58   #71
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It's good as it makes the children think about politics. We can't be selfish about it, as old fans.
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Old 28-12-2005, 15:00   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandmaster
Which episodes can you recall which directly attack the policies of the Government then?
I don't think there has ever been a direct attack, but certainly in episodes like The Sunmakers the Doctor displays his socialist / communist side. And then you've got things like The Green Death which is a thinly veiled attack on corporatism and globalisation.

Then you've got things like The Curse of Peladon, which tells a story not dissimilar to the one that was happening in politics of the time with the UK on the verge of EEC membership.

These are only a few examples - Who is frequently political, and constantly leaning in the direction of socialism.

Personally, I don't think it's a bad thing to introduce a few allegorical examples in drama if it can explain ideas or educate people - I just think that maybe Barry Letts was a bit more skilled at getting his point across than Russel T Davies is. RTD's method seems to be too heavily based on using the character of the Doctor to make cheap shots.

You could write a fab story about the reasons for going to war in Iraq and the rights and wrongs of it and make it much more thought provoking than the odd line in Aliens of London ever was. They were still funny lines though!!

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Old 28-12-2005, 18:27   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandmaster
It was a pop at New Labour in general
Well, if the cap fits...

I think we're not going to agree on this. The aliens were about to wipe out one-third of the world's population. The Doctor has a wee wrestle with the leader and sends them home with a flea in their ear. That seems a fair attempt at a peaceful resolution to a problem.
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Old 28-12-2005, 20:05   #74
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Originally Posted by hermand
Enjoyed it - DT was good, and I loved the Lion King line - hope to see more of that.

Question: does anyone know what the song at the end was?
An original composition by Murray Gold, according to the commentary available on the BBC Doctor Who site. A lovely little song, too.
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Old 28-12-2005, 20:06   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedibitch
Was i the only one who thought it was woeful?

The story was just weak
A bit like star wars then.

Quote:
we got 1 hour of awful effects
A bit like star wars then.


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Old 28-12-2005, 21:54   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandmaster
It was a pop at New Labour in general and more specifically the Doctor's way of unsettling Harriet Jones was essentially a word-for-word copy of the language used to unsettle Tony Blair. Describing him as 'tired' causing a huge media feeding frenzy which was reflected in the episode.
Didn't a simmilar thing happen with Thatcher or am I misremembering?
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Old 28-12-2005, 22:07   #77
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I found this episode too flippant for my liking. Was there an explanation for why they were able to decipher the alien language? Did they land on Earth before?

Dr Who breaks the alien's staff
"You can't get the staff these days"
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Old 28-12-2005, 22:16   #78
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Was there an explanation for why they were able to decipher the alien language? Did they land on Earth before?

i presume that we are meant to take it that they just did it with the computer, easier to swallow if there was a text component to the signal.
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Old 28-12-2005, 23:24   #79
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yup a similar thing happened with thatcher, The Happiness Patrols main baddie (no not the candyman!) was meant to be a caracature of her.
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Old 28-12-2005, 23:55   #80
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Right lets do this again (pc crashed earlier at the end of typnig my thoughts):

Superb little episode, loved it, thought it was better than Serenity, but thats because it was enjoyable, and Tennant stole the show, storywise it was still woeful. Klingon rip-off villains (please that was old ten years ago), a tangerine for gods sake, why didn't they do it as a cricket ball as a homage, that would at least have been a bit more believable, and that WTF moment made the incredibly cliched hero line afterwards stick out like a sore thumb.

But the adding to the mythos of the tardis/doctor translation of alien to english was supreb, as was the whole build up, whereas everyone intoned Spike Milligan like, what do we do now? what do we do now?

POlitics had no problem with, thought it was a good ending, allow thoughtful contemplation what the right decision is. And I like the fact it put some depth on the mythos as to why the Doctor is always hanging out on Earth, he's our unofficial protector!
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