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Old 27-09-2020, 22:38   #41
Shingster
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IMO a re-adaptation qualifies as a remake if it satisfies either one of these two criteria (or both):

1. Have they announced it or are they marketing it as a remake or linking it to earlier adaptations in some way?

2. Does the film contain significant elements from the previous adaptation that are not in the books.

So for instance Gore Verbinski's American remake of The Ring is just that because they were clearly remaking Hideo Nakata's Japanese film (itself a re-adaptation) rather than adapting Koji Suzuki's novel.

John Carpenter's The Thing is a much less clear case given that the film is clearly a much more faithful adaptation of John Campbell's novella with very little connection Christian Nyby's The Thing from Another World, but then they took (part of) the title and opening credit style of Nyby's film so IMO you can argue that it is indeed a remake.

Mind you, back in the early 80s the term "remake" still had its original meaning of being more of an umbrella term that includes remake/reboot/reimagining/re-adaptation so it was much more natural to just accept The Thing as a remake despite there being a desire to stress this was a readaptation on the filmmaker's part. Nowadays remake almost seems to be a dirty word to film fans!

Last edited by Shingster; 27-09-2020 at 22:40.
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Old 28-09-2020, 07:28   #42
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Lynch added things not in the book like the opening meeting between the Emperor and the Guild, and the weapons using sound. If these aren't in the new Dune I suppose we can say it's not a remake.
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Old 28-09-2020, 07:44   #43
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I say let's not overthink it: if you're making a new movie from the same material as a previous movie, telling basically the same story, then it's a remake.

They're making a Dune movie. Dune has been made into a movie before. Therefore it is a remake.

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I think the remake idea is because there is literally not a single shot in the trailer that isn't a new version of a shot from the old film.
That's clearly not true. In the side-by-side trailer edits you can see that there are lots of shots that don't match at all: a beach on Caladan matched to a filmbook illustration of the planets of the Imperium, an aerial shot of Caladan matched to a spaceship sitting in a space port. (Of course, these are just what the fans who made the trailer comparison videos picked, but it demonstrates that they couldn't find a matching shot.)

Or shots that show the same character/scene, but shot in a very different way: for example a bunch of the shots of Chani that open the trailer, or the strikingly different way the harvester rescue is staged and filmed.

Or shots that look vaguely similar but actually depict quite different things: the 2020 trailer has the burning palm trees from the book, but it's matched to a shot of burning weirding modules from the 1984 film; Paul giving an Atreides salute with his knife is matched to him giving a Fremen salute with an open palm—from a completely different scene that won't even be in the new movie since it comes much later.

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There was a lot of stuff in the book that never made it to the screen in the Lynch movie but there aren't any shots like that in the trailer
The main bits the Lynch movie omitted from the book—or rather, from the parts of the book that are covered by this new movie—are:



In this trailer, several of those are shown:


Last edited by bronso; 28-09-2020 at 07:50.
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Old 28-09-2020, 16:20   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bronso View Post
I say let's not overthink it: if you're making a new movie from the same material as a previous movie, telling basically the same story, then it's a remake.

They're making a Dune movie. Dune has been made into a movie before. Therefore it is a remake.
That's certainly how I used to approach the term before the 21st century, but you pop over to Blu-ray.com and make that statement and see how well you fare! I used to get roasted for arguing The Thing was a remake! Kids today seem to really despise the term, everything is either a reboot or a re-adaptation, "excuse me, it's NOT a remake!!!!" I think it's just a flippant response to the usual negative response to the announcement of a remake of a beloved classic, as if renaming it reboot/re-adaptation will somehow alter the reaction.
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Old 29-09-2020, 12:53   #45
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I alos still use the old definition. As far as I'm concerned its becaues the term remake had a negative rap filmmakers just started creating other labels to call it instead of remake, as far as Im concerned its still a remake whatever you call it.
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Old 29-09-2020, 14:02   #46
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At the same time, I admit that I wouldn't for example insist that Disney's Aladdin is a remake of the French 1970 adaptation, if there's no evidence of a connection between the two other than shared source material; and when there's some intermediate transformative adaptation (e.g. as a musical or spoof, as in the case of The Producers, Little Shop of Horrors, Reefer Madness or The Phantom of the Opera), a more precise term is probably preferable.

But Dune is made with full awareness of the Lynch movie, it's clearly taking some influence from it, and is, according to the director, in part a response to it. It's quite definitely a remake.

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Old 29-09-2020, 16:10   #47
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Fair enough, happy to call it a remake.

I always enjoyed the old movie tbh, got to remember it's a very complicated and long book. And who doesn't like to see Sting in a pair of speedos. It's problem is trying to strip it all down into a coherent movie, hopefully this one's only doing half the book might help.
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Old 30-09-2020, 10:15   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bronso View Post
The main bits the Lynch movie omitted from the book—or rather, from the parts of the book that are covered by this new movie—are:



In this trailer, several of those are shown:

So some of the things listed aren’t included and others you think are included based on inferences from the trailer which can’t be confirmed. I think your opening sentence “let’s not overthink it” is probably the best policy.

There was much less Giedi Prime stuff in the Lynch movie than the book
and it’s evident that even with two movies to cover the material things will be left out, though more can be included than Lynch did. Still, I think it’s pretty safe to view this as a remake based on what’s shown in the trailer.
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Old 30-09-2020, 12:30   #49
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No mention of Harah in the cast list I could see on wikipedia.

Lets hope they don't just fill the extra time with epic riding round on worms and fighting shots
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Old 30-09-2020, 15:22   #50
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Originally Posted by jockosjungle View Post
Fair enough, happy to call it a remake.

I always enjoyed the old movie tbh, got to remember it's a very complicated and long book. And who doesn't like to see Sting in a pair of speedos. It's problem is trying to strip it all down into a coherent movie, hopefully this one's only doing half the book might help.
Recently I watched the Spicediver cut of the Lynch movie and I have to say, to me it's the best version. If you enjoyed Lynch's Dune (which I do anyway and quote regularly), it's certainly worth seeking out
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Old 06-10-2020, 00:08   #51
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Unsurprisingly put back to October 2021.
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Old 06-10-2020, 07:13   #52
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Yeah, this is why I didn't title the thread "Dune (2020)".
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Old 06-10-2020, 11:46   #53
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Yeh it was fairly inevitable and clearly they'd just not got round to updated the schedule as yet. It's a shame, but I guess what can they do? They need the first one to make some money.

Are we going to see a glut of movies in the future or are we basically just going to lose a year of movie making somewhere along the lines?
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Old 06-10-2020, 13:00   #54
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But films do make money, its just a slow trickle than all at once, just means you got to be patience and wait months. However they probably need to change the cinema/distributor equation - they must be looking into this, as traditional distributors got the first few week and the cinemas the later ones.
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Old 06-10-2020, 17:18   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jockosjungle View Post
Are we going to see a glut of movies in the future or are we basically just going to lose a year of movie making somewhere along the lines?
I think it's the latter - as well as studios not wanting to release too many films close together I imagine it's been harder for films to actually be made?
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Old 06-10-2020, 17:25   #56
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I live near Shepperton Studios and there was a guy walking down the high street earlier while on his phone and saying how they were just about to start shooting, so things are being made.
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Old 11-12-2020, 09:06   #57
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I learned in the news that Warner Bros. has decided to release “Dune” on HBO Max at the same time as our theatrical release, using prominent images from our movie to promote their streaming service. With this decision AT&T has hijacked one of the most respectable and important studios in film history. There is absolutely no love for cinema, nor for the audience here. It is all about the survival of a telecom mammoth, one that is currently bearing an astronomical debt of more than $150 billion. Therefore, even though “Dune” is about cinema and audiences, AT&T is about its own survival on Wall Street. With HBO Max’s launch a failure thus far, AT&T decided to sacrifice Warner Bros.’ entire 2021 slate in a desperate attempt to grab the audience’s attention.

Warner Bros.’ sudden reversal from being a legacy home for filmmakers to the new era of complete disregard draws a clear line for me. Filmmaking is a collaboration, reliant on the mutual trust of team work and Warner Bros. has declared they are no longer on the same team.

Streaming services are a positive and powerful addition to the movie and TV ecosystems. But I want the audience to understand that streaming alone can’t sustain the film industry as we knew it before COVID. Streaming can produce great content, but not movies of “Dune’s” scope and scale. Warner Bros.’ decision means “Dune” won’t have the chance to perform financially in order to be viable and piracy will ultimately triumph. Warner Bros. might just have killed the “Dune” franchise. This one is for the fans. AT&T’s John Stankey said that the streaming horse left the barn. In truth, the horse left the barn for the slaughterhouse.

Public safety comes first. Nobody argues with that. Which is why when it became apparent the winter would bring a second wave of the pandemic, I understood and supported the decision to delay “Dune’s” opening by almost a year. The plan was that “Dune” would open in theaters in October 2021, when vaccinations will be advanced and, hopefully, the virus behind us. Science tells us that everything should be back to a new normal next fall.

“Dune” is by far the best movie I’ve ever made. My team and I devoted more than three years of our lives to make it a unique big screen experience. Our movie’s image and sound were meticulously designed to be seen in theaters.

I’m speaking on my own behalf, though I stand in solidarity with the sixteen other filmmakers who now face the same fate. Please know I am with you and that together we are strong. The artists are the ones who create movies and series.

I strongly believe the future of cinema will be on the big screen, no matter what any Wall Street dilettante says. Since the dawn of time, humans have deeply needed communal storytelling experiences. Cinema on the big screen is more than a business, it is an art form that brings people together, celebrating humanity, enhancing our empathy for one another — it’s one of the very last artistic, in-person collective experiences we share as human beings.

Once the pandemic is over, theaters will be filled again with film lovers.

That is my strong belief. Not because the movie industry needs it, but because we humans need cinema, as a collective experience.

So, just as I have both a fiduciary and creative responsibility to fulfill as the filmmaker, I call on AT&T to act swiftly with the same responsibility, respect and regard to protect this vital cultural medium. Economic impact to stakeholders is only one aspect of corporate social responsibility. Finding ways to enhance culture is another. The moviegoing experience is like no other. In those darkened theaters films capture our history, educate us, fuel our imagination and lift and inspire our collective spirit. It is our legacy.

Long live theatrical cinema!

— Denis Villeneuve
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Old 11-12-2020, 09:27   #58
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He has a point.
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Old 11-12-2020, 16:02   #59
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He's hit the nail on the head. Any execs who didn't realise this would be a pirate's dream needs sacking. Don't forget that this is meant to be movie #1 of 2. This could affect box office so catastrophically that the second movie never gets made and a great movie could go down as a a box office flop. Good on him for calling out the stupidity of this.
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Old 11-12-2020, 16:44   #60
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To be honest I'd be surprised if it made enough to justify part 2 even at the cinema. It's a very niche film. Look at the Blade Runner sequel, lots of hype etc. but I doubt it made enough money to justify another sequel.
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