Go Back   Forums @ The Digital Fix > Entertainment Discussion Forums > Sports Forum

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-01-2005, 10:17   #101
dmb6473a
Trusted User
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: West Midlands
Posts: 5,491
Thanks: 49
Thanked 62 Times in 54 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by d2000s

3. Wanderlei Silva vs. Mark Hunt


dmb6473a is offline  
Old 10-01-2005, 10:32   #102
d2000s
Trusted User
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland
Posts: 5,461
Thanks: 35
Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmb6473a
d2000s is offline  
Old 10-01-2005, 12:34   #103
dmb6473a
Trusted User
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: West Midlands
Posts: 5,491
Thanks: 49
Thanked 62 Times in 54 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by d2000s

dmb6473a is offline  
Old 12-01-2005, 23:18   #104
d2000s
Trusted User
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland
Posts: 5,461
Thanks: 35
Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts
Some news just confirming what we all new was going to happen-its been announced that Couture and Liddell will be facing one another on April 16 at UFC 52.

UFC better hope Liddell wins the fight because they have no-one left to face Randy.

Full Feb 5 UFC 51 card:

Tito Ortiz vs. Vitor Belfort
Tim Sylvia vs. Andre Arlovski
Evan Tanner vs. David Terrell
Robbie Lawler Pete Sell ( ) vs. Phil Baroni
David Loiseau vs. Joe Riggs
James Irvin vs. Mike Kyle
Justin Eilers vs. Paul Buentello
Nick Diaz vs. Drew Fickett
Karo Parisyan vs. Chris Lytle


Should be a really good event, looking forward to the heavyweight and middleweight "interim title"/title fights in particular. Also Ortiz AND Belfort are out of contract after this fight, so both are fighting for their UFC futures (although I heard Belfort could go to Pride after this fight no matter what the outcome). Robbie Lawler got injured so withdrew, was hoping he got beat which would have probably meant we will never have to see him fight again

Last edited by d2000s; 12-01-2005 at 23:21.
d2000s is offline  
Old 13-01-2005, 10:14   #105
dmb6473a
Trusted User
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: West Midlands
Posts: 5,491
Thanks: 49
Thanked 62 Times in 54 Posts
Pride also want Ortiz for their Grand Prix tournament this year.

I can't say that this UFC card does a great deal for me, but its normally the fights that you aren't expecting to be good that surprise you. UFC has definitely suffered from a combination of bad luck and bad management over the last 12 or so months. They're years behind the Japanese promotions, but are lucky that both K1 and Pride haven't managed to steal the U.S market (yet).
dmb6473a is offline  
Old 13-01-2005, 11:57   #106
d2000s
Trusted User
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland
Posts: 5,461
Thanks: 35
Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmb6473a
Pride also want Ortiz for their Grand Prix tournament this year.

I can't say that this UFC card does a great deal for me, but its normally the fights that you aren't expecting to be good that surprise you. UFC has definitely suffered from a combination of bad luck and bad management over the last 12 or so months. They're years behind the Japanese promotions, but are lucky that both K1 and Pride haven't managed to steal the U.S market (yet).
What do you base that on? They have had an amazing 12 months: PPV buy rates have been excellent; they have moved considerably closer to the mainstream with Fox showing older fights and now looking to do live fights; they have a new reality show running "the Ultimate Fighter" building up the Liddell Couture fight which will be huge; they have considerably smaller budget than Pride, but book the fighters they have better than Pride do and nearly all shows last year, in general, had competitive matches from start to finish. In Pride they have far too many weak early fights and huge mismatches, plus they dont have lighter weight classes like UFC do in their main show.
d2000s is offline  
Old 13-01-2005, 13:03   #107
dmb6473a
Trusted User
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: West Midlands
Posts: 5,491
Thanks: 49
Thanked 62 Times in 54 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by d2000s
What do you base that on? They have had an amazing 12 months: PPV buy rates have been excellent; they have moved considerably closer to the mainstream with Fox showing older fights and now looking to do live fights; they have a new reality show running "the Ultimate Fighter" building up the Liddell Couture fight which will be huge; they have considerably smaller budget than Pride, but book the fighters they have better than Pride do and nearly all shows last year, in general, had competitive matches from start to finish. In Pride they have far too many weak early fights and huge mismatches, plus they dont have lighter weight classes like UFC do in their main show.

PPV buyrates have been good this year, but that was more to do with the Ortiz vs Liddell grudge match, and the return of Ken Shamrock. The question is what do they have that can keep people coming back for more? Will Liddell vs Couture be huge? Their last fight in 2003 was the second lowest buyrate of the last seven (Tank vs Cabbage being the lowest). The reality show may help, but the Fox channel isn't seen as a big deal in the U.S. as ratings for most shows are very low.

Another problem has been the titles. With fighters walking out (Penn), suspended for steroids (Sylvia) and injuries (Mir), its difficult to keep tabs on who is the champion. Ok, Pride had a similar problem, but at least they turned into big business with New Years Eve show.

I'd disagree that UFC book the fighters better than Pride. Would UFC do a better job if they had Pride's money and talent? Maybe, but the point is that they don't. As things stand, more talent will continue to leave for Japan, which allows for better booking. K1 booked Akebono vs Bob Sapp which was a horrible fight. It still blew everything away in the tv ratings, which indicates that it was well booked.

As for the lighter weights, its true that Pride had moved these to the Bushido shows, and they can be more exciting. But the ratings don't lie. The Bushido shows have generally been considered weak, and the weakest buyrates for UFC over the last four years have been for two shows headlined by smaller fighters (UFC 35 - Penn vs Pulver, and UFC 42 - Hughes vs Sherk). It's the same in boxing, with lighter weight fighters drawing poorly as headliners (without the backing of a huge community, as some of the Mexican fighters have). Exciting fights, yes. But that will only get you so far before the money runs out.

UFC need another huge draw. Someone like an Ortiz, Shamrock, Couture, etc. Without one, the audience will gradually decline, because the current top fighters aren't going to be around much longer.
dmb6473a is offline  
Old 13-01-2005, 13:48   #108
d2000s
Trusted User
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland
Posts: 5,461
Thanks: 35
Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmb6473a
PPV buyrates have been good this year, but that was more to do with the Ortiz vs Liddell grudge match, and the return of Ken Shamrock. The question is what do they have that can keep people coming back for more? Will Liddell vs Couture be huge? Their last fight in 2003 was the second lowest buyrate of the last seven (Tank vs Cabbage being the lowest). The reality show may help, but the Fox channel isn't seen as a big deal in the U.S. as ratings for most shows are very low.
Why does it matter why ratings were good? the fact is that they were. Liddell/Couture drew badly in 03 was because it was meant to be Tito/Liddell but Tito ducked him, Couture had never fought at LHW before and was seen as a big underdog and it was seen as an upset when he won.
Fox is still a mainstream channel and reaches a lot of people



[QUOTE]I'd disagree that UFC book the fighters better than Pride. Would UFC do a better job if they had Pride's money and talent? Maybe, but the point is that they don't.[/point]

But in terms of quality of product, they rival the Pride shows DESPITE having fewer resources- UFC 51 was better than Pride High Octane(which only had one good fight).

Quote:
As things stand, more talent will continue to leave for Japan, which allows for better booking. K1 booked Akebono vs Bob Sapp which was a horrible fight. It still blew everything away in the tv ratings, which indicates that it was well booked.
In the states? MMA is far more popular in Japan/Asia so you cant compare.

Quote:
As for the lighter weights, its true that Pride had moved these to the Bushido shows, and they can be more exciting. But the ratings don't lie. The Bushido shows have generally been considered weak, and the weakest buyrates for UFC over the last four years have been for two shows headlined by smaller fighters (UFC 35 - Penn vs Pulver, and UFC 42 - Hughes vs Sherk). It's the same in boxing, with lighter weight fighters drawing poorly as headliners (without the backing of a huge community, as some of the Mexican fighters have). Exciting fights, yes. But that will only get you so far before the money runs out.
The Pride new years event showed how lighter weights can be utilised well lower down the card, contrast this with High Octane that was filled with rubbish heavyweight cards.


Quote:
UFC need another huge draw. Someone like an Ortiz, Shamrock, Couture, etc. Without one, the audience will gradually decline, because the current top fighters aren't going to be around much longer.
Agreed.
d2000s is offline  
Old 13-01-2005, 15:14   #109
dmb6473a
Trusted User
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: West Midlands
Posts: 5,491
Thanks: 49
Thanked 62 Times in 54 Posts
Quote:
Why does it matter why ratings were good? the fact is that they were. Liddell/Couture drew badly in 03 was because it was meant to be Tito/Liddell but Tito ducked him, Couture had never fought at LHW before and was seen as a big underdog and it was seen as an upset when he won.
Fox is still a mainstream channel and reaches a lot of people
It matters why the ratings are good because we’re talking about the sole reason why they put a show on. No promoter wants to be able to say, “Well no-one bought our show, but at least we had the best fights of the year on it”. Ratings matter, because they are what get you another show. Ratings matter, because they tell you what the public want to see. If you know what the public want to see, you can promote the next show around it. If you don’t learn from your ratings successes and failures, you won’t be in business for long.

True, Couture/Liddell may at the time have not been seen as a main event. But that’s the problem that UFC has over the next 12+ months. Who is the next big star? Where do they go after the Couture/Liddell rematch? What match can get us another 100,000 buys? Right now there is no answer, because lesser known fighters (talented or otherwise) mean fewer buys.

As for the Fox Sports Network, it’s hardly mainstream. Popular channels get ratings in the 10.0+ range. Even the strong cable channels get ratings between 4.0 and 8.0. FSN normally gets ratings around 0.2.


Quote:
But in terms of quality of product, they rival the Pride shows DESPITE having fewer resources- UFC 51 was better than Pride High Octane(which only had one good fight).
I guess which show was better is a matter of opinion, but good fights don’t necessarily make good shows (as far as the promoters are concerned, anyway).


Quote:
In the states? MMA is far more popular in Japan/Asia so you cant compare.
It doesn’t really matter where the event took place. MMA is bigger in Japan, but it isn’t as big as you’d think. Four networks had huge shows on New Years Eve 2003. Three were MMA shows (Pride, K1 and Inoki Bom Ba Ye). The fourth was the year end music festival. The latter, which gets ratings that rival the Superbowl, trounced the three MMA shows. However, in the quarter ratings, the Akebono vs Sapp fight was one of the few periods when MMA won on the night. I wouldn’t even class that match as an MMA fight. It was a freak show between two people from different professions (Sumo vs Actor/NFL). That was what sold the public on the match, so in fact it was no different than Celebrity Big Brother (famous people in unfamiliar roles). If UFC booked a fight between Mike Tyson and an American Football player, which would be the U.S equivalent of Sapp vs Akebono, it would get more mainstream press than any previous UFC fight by a huge margin. Yes, the fight would be awful, but the promoters would be smiling all the way to the bank. You can’t use this tactic over and over again, but you don’t need to. You use the freak show to attract the audience, and the undercard talent to keep them coming back. This is why I feel the Japanese promoters are better bookers, and why you can compare the Japanese and US markets. You just have to know what the public want, and then give it to them. That’s the same the world over.


Quote:
The Pride new years event showed how lighter weights can be utilised well lower down the card, contrast this with High Octane that was filled with rubbish heavyweight cards.
But one person’s rubbish is another’s highly anticipated event. High Octane wasn’t great, but the main event was, and two other fights (in particular Barnett vs Cro Cop, which could have been great) had unexpected premature endings. It happens. It even happened in UFC with Couture vs Belfort, and the promoters can’t be blamed for it being a bad card when it does.

I don’t disagree in the slightest with you that the lighter weight fighters do more often put on the more entertaining fights. But that’s me speaking as a fan. If I was a promoter I’d look it at completely differently, because the ratings say that the fans want something else.

Maybe they need to promote a few shows with the smaller fighters, to get a few of them breaking through to the superstar level. The problem is that they book shows for today instead of tomorrow. If the ratings aren’t a success immediately, they’ll consider it a failure and go back to the old formula.
dmb6473a is offline  
Old 13-01-2005, 17:48   #110
d2000s
Trusted User
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland
Posts: 5,461
Thanks: 35
Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts
Quote:
It matters why the ratings are good because we’re talking about the sole reason why they put a show on.
You misunderstood why I asked the question, you said they had a bad 12 months. I said they didn't, the opposite in fact, pointing to the ratings as one success. You agreed, but then said that the ratings were only good because they booked good fights/fighters - at the time it just seemed a strange thing to say in the context of the discussion.

Quote:
PPV buyrates have been good this year, but that was more to do with the Ortiz vs Liddell grudge match, and the return of Ken Shamrock.

Last edited by d2000s; 13-01-2005 at 17:49.
d2000s is offline  
Old 13-01-2005, 19:59   #111
dmb6473a
Trusted User
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: West Midlands
Posts: 5,491
Thanks: 49
Thanked 62 Times in 54 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by d2000s
You misunderstood why I asked the question, you said they had a bad 12 months. I said they didn't, the opposite in fact, pointing to the ratings as one success. You agreed, but then said that the ratings were only good because they booked good fights/fighters - at the time it just seemed a strange thing to say in the context of the discussion.

I think there's been a misunderstanding on both sides. I didn't say they'd had a bad year for ratings. Just that they'd had bad luck and bad management over the last year. By that I meant the problem with the title situations (bad luck), and how they've dealt with it and the contracts of the existing fighters (bad management). It's left them in a situation where, after Couture/Liddell (which I really don't think will reach 100,000 buys), they're left scratching their heads for future main events. Sticking a Shamrock vs Kimo fight out as some nostalgia show will only work occasionally.

Did I say that good fights/fighters means good ratings? I thought I'd been talking about Akebono vs Sapp, so that can't be the case. Seriously though, what I meant was Liddell/Ortiz and the return of Shamrock drew great crowds not because they are great fighters. They drew the great crowds because of the story behind the fights and how they were promoted. That's what they need to do with some of the newcomers (develop them, so that the audience gives a damn). A decent fight doesn't seem to be enough these days.
dmb6473a is offline  
Old 13-01-2005, 21:32   #112
d2000s
Trusted User
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland
Posts: 5,461
Thanks: 35
Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmb6473a
I think there's been a misunderstanding on both sides.
Probably- we need to keep our posts shorter so that we can follow them easier- from now on 40 word limit

Last edited by d2000s; 13-01-2005 at 21:33.
d2000s is offline  
Old 13-01-2005, 21:55   #113
dmb6473a
Trusted User
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: West Midlands
Posts: 5,491
Thanks: 49
Thanked 62 Times in 54 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by d2000s
Probably- we need to keep our posts shorter so that we can follow them easier- from now on 40 word limit


Nah. I like to waffle.
dmb6473a is offline  
Old 20-01-2005, 03:12   #114
Guest 8631
Trusted User
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: 1850 posts plus...
Posts: 985
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
UFC 51 to be shown on Bravo on sunday 6th Feb

Beth from the UFC just announced on mma.tv that UFC 51 will be shown on Bravo with only a 24 hour delay.

That is excellent news!!!

Dana White also said recently on MMA Weekly Radio that UFC Reality Show -The Ultimate Fighter will be shown in the UK, so i expect Bravo to get that aswell.

So did anyone here watch the 1st episode of the reality showyet ? Thoughts?
Guest 8631 is offline  
Old 20-01-2005, 03:35   #115
joconnor
(,O'.')-O
 
joconnor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: is everything
Posts: 5,925
Thanks: 72
Thanked 86 Times in 52 Posts
I wonder if it will be shown in full or split over 2 nights?

Either way it's great news
joconnor is offline  
Old 20-01-2005, 09:22   #116
d2000s
Trusted User
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland
Posts: 5,461
Thanks: 35
Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts
Excellent news on UFC 51, thanks SP.
d2000s is offline  
Old 23-01-2005, 17:28   #117
dmb6473a
Trusted User
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: West Midlands
Posts: 5,491
Thanks: 49
Thanked 62 Times in 54 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spinning Plates
So did anyone here watch the 1st episode of the reality showyet ? Thoughts?

I thought that it had quite a lot of potential. It wasn't a great show, but you can definitely see that it will get better as the weeks go on. I'd be a little concerned about any of them getting a UFC contract, as no-one stood out as a natural in MMA. They're all fighters, but the show made it look as if they were recruiting people with no experience. It appears that there's the token idiot in the group, who everyone will want to see get beat.

I'll definitely be watching the next one
dmb6473a is offline  
Old 24-01-2005, 21:58   #118
Guest 8631
Trusted User
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: 1850 posts plus...
Posts: 985
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
UFC on Bravo

"British Sky TV channel Bravo has confirmed that it will be airing UFC 51 in the UK with only a 24-hour delay, which means that British fans will not quite have drowned in their own drool by the time the big fights appear on the little screen, from 9 p.m. to midnight on Sunday, February 6.

This does not appear to be a one-off phenomenon. The rumor, currently unconfirmed, is that Bravo has also signed a deal to show UFC 52 and that, as part of that deal, they have also secured the rights to 11 hours of further UFC programming. This includes UFC 48-50, Ultimate Knockouts, Ultimate Submissions and Ultimate Ken Shamrock.

Bravo has shown old UFC programming in the past, and this has reportedly pulled in excellent viewing figures. It is on the strength of this past performance that this deal was struck. So tell all your friends, the more people who watch UFC 51, the more likely Bravo is to keep showing us the fights.

More details will be available on www.bravo.co.uk at the beginning of February."

source: www.sherdog.com
Guest 8631 is offline  
Old 25-01-2005, 14:01   #119
Guest 32046
Trusted User
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 5,753
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Saw the first episode of The Ultimate Fighter last night and thought it was excellent.

Those work outs looked horrendous. Really hoping for that Chris to get knocked out next episode. What an arse.
Guest 32046 is offline  
Old 25-01-2005, 14:03   #120
mitch316
giddyup
 
mitch316's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 741
Thanks: 50
Thanked 45 Times in 22 Posts
chris is a tool of the highest order.but i really enjoyed this and looking forward to the next ep
mitch316 is offline  
Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

All times are GMT. The time now is 01:15.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.qq
Copyright ©2000 - 2021 Network N Ltd.