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Old 10-10-2017, 20:21   #21
AdamBrunt
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With Holland needing a massive win to go through .... why does HTH obviously not count in WC qualification when it seems to count in all other European/World level competition ?
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Old 10-10-2017, 20:30   #22
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It doesn't happen in most domestic leagues. I'm guessing H2H is used in tournaments because there are far fewer games and its far more likely that goal difference or goals scored isn't necessarily going to separate the teams.

I'd guess also there is a home and away leg, so it adds a level of complication, is it an aggregate score? The whole thing could come down to conceding an extra goal, when you may have stuffed all the other teams.

Squeaky bum time for a fair few big teams here.
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Old 10-10-2017, 21:05   #23
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Originally Posted by rbullivant View Post
It doesn't happen in most domestic leagues. I'm guessing H2H is used in tournaments because there are far fewer games and its far more likely that goal difference or goals scored isn't necessarily going to separate the teams.

I'd guess also there is a home and away leg, so it adds a level of complication, is it an aggregate score? The whole thing could come down to conceding an extra goal, when you may have stuffed all the other teams.

Squeaky bum time for a fair few big teams here.
Squeaky bum time indeed.

I realise it doesn't happen in domestic leagues but everything else seems to be H2H is considered before goal difference and, could be argued, is a far fairer way of comparing two teams than picking the team who happened to score 1/2 more goals against a minnow.
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Old 11-10-2017, 00:54   #24
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Squeaky bum time indeed.

I realise it doesn't happen in domestic leagues but everything else seems to be H2H is considered before goal difference and, could be argued, is a far fairer way of comparing two teams than picking the team who happened to score 1/2 more goals against a minnow.
I believe when they chose the 8 teams to go through to the knockout to provide the final 4 they discount games against the bottom side for just the reason you say but not in the group standings though....
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Old 11-10-2017, 06:58   #25
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Squeaky bum time indeed.

I realise it doesn't happen in domestic leagues but everything else seems to be H2H is considered before goal difference and, could be argued, is a far fairer way of comparing two teams than picking the team who happened to score 1/2 more goals against a minnow.
I suppose it's because the team who goes through should be done on who has done the best against all the teams, rather than one. But it's as good a way of doing it as any.

Is it not a criteria at all?

Well France, Portugal and Argentina made it through. USA may not be a massive team, but they've been at every World Cup for a while now, since 1986.

England are currently the 12th best team who have qualified, according to world rankings, we might jump a couple of places by the draw. Do they just have one pot of seeded teams? I cannot remember and recall it's complicated to keep different regions apart.

Looking at it, there is a decent draw in there somewhere
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Old 11-10-2017, 09:45   #26
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Seeding rules for World Cup 18 here
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Old 11-10-2017, 10:04   #27
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USA may not be a massive team, but they've been at every World Cup for a while now, since 1986.
Not sure that America will mind not being in Russia tbh
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Old 11-10-2017, 18:04   #28
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Seeding rules for World Cup 18 here
So the seedings will work in our favour a little, we should be the second best team on paper and some of those higher ranked teams are a little weak (I mean we used to be one of those teams with an artificially high world ranking). Not sure if we can increase it when the rankings come out next week, but we did win both games this month
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Old 12-10-2017, 10:29   #29
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Not sure if we can increase it when the rankings come out next week, but we did win both games this month
Apart from the hosts, France are the lowest ranked team (ranked 7) in pot 1, so I can't see us moving up from 12 to 7
TBH it makes little difference, we'll lose to the rubbish teams anyway.
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Old 10-11-2017, 22:05   #30
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Nice performance from England against the best national side on the planet. Trippier was excellent, Loftus Cheek looks class and Pickford looked like a modern keeper who can use his feet, choose a pass and save his fair share. Abrahams looked ponderous, Dier was more creative than usual and Vardys pace is a real weapon. Defence was not perfect though with England passed through too easily and errors from all bar Stones and Pickford....

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Old 10-11-2017, 22:15   #31
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Good performance, for once it looked like they were interested. Helps picking players with a point to prove.
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Old 10-11-2017, 23:33   #32
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Good performance, for once it looked like they were interested. Helps picking players with a point to prove.
I felt it was down to technical application - comfort with the ball, positive passing and a clear tactical plan. Its so nice not watching a keeper kick out all the time, defenders who bring the ball out and interchange with midfielders and attackers who don't stand still or keep passing sideways or back.

Choosing Tripper over Walker and having three mobile centre halves added to a more modern system where passes were progressive and accurate. Loftus Cheek drove the team forward and Vardy worked very hard.

I do hope he keeps Trippier, Pickford and Loftus Cheek in the side, and keeps picking Gomez in the squad...
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Old 11-11-2017, 02:04   #33
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I was kind of thinking that with it being a draw they should have had penalties to decide a winner
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Old 14-11-2017, 08:30   #34
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Well we've at least gone one stage further than Italy! That's one team who won't be knocking us out
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Old 14-11-2017, 09:33   #35
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We're going to play them in a friendly, so they can beat us
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Old 14-11-2017, 11:15   #36
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Well we've at least gone one stage further than Italy! That's one team who won't be knocking us out
A lot of the qualifiers have been underwhelming as well. Sweden barely attacked, Switzerland have no striker and a rickety defence despite their home record and Croatia are still fielding Blackburn flunker Kalinic and Leicester dropout Kramaric.

The Italian team has been terribly managed. Yesterday was the first time the coach let the form player of Serie A on the pitch and even got told by Daniele Rossi, who he was trying to bring on as a sub, that he should have put strikers on instead. They very likely will beat England in the friendly as they retain a good defence and just need to get midfield right. Incidentally, Italy and Holland are excellent choices for pre-tournament friendlies as they will have an incentive to regain some pride.

Tonight will be interesting as Brazil have sorted themselves out since the last world cup and can boast Neymar, Jesus, and Coutinho who should really test a youngish defence.
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Old 14-11-2017, 22:35   #37
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A really creditable if defensive display. England couldnt keep the ball or pass progressively and they effectively played a back 5 but Gomez, Stones and Maguire looked great with Rashford showing a few flourishes too. Hart kicked long at everything and it was clear the backline didn't trust him with the ball at his feet, Walker lost the ball all night and Dyer, well Dyer and Livermore should not be in the same sport as Augusto and Casemiro who murdered both of them.

Still Southgate has got it right many times in the last week and did so tonight again, England will need to be more progressive to beat weaker sides but that was quite ok...

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Old 15-11-2017, 08:10   #38
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I think it's fine when you're playing Germany or Brazil, what has concerned me in recent years (possibly since Sven) is the desire to play to beat the system of whatever mediocre opposition we face. Playing San Marino, better set ourselves up to thwart their big front man.

Other teams don't seem to do this as much, they just play their natural game and avoid meddling.

Still two draws against two world class teams, can't really complain. Just need to practisce a few penalties.
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Old 15-11-2017, 09:30   #39
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It's Dier btw. Dyer was the old Ipswich and Newcastle winger who spent most of the time injured.
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Old 15-11-2017, 09:48   #40
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R. Ireland got found out last night, and about time. The minute they come out and try to score goals they get walloped. I'd rather see a team like Denmark at the tournament that at least try to play decent football.
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