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Old 17-09-2006, 17:15   #141
Tempest
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Just think, in (Perhaps) 5 years time there will be £20 HD-DVD and Bluray players in Tesco

Then again?

Methinks I shall wait a while...............
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Old 17-09-2006, 17:47   #142
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If I get 380£ worth of joy out of equipment, over 5 years, I'll be happy.

Finally managed to iron out the few (!) problems I was having, and am loving the output this machine produces - images are stunning, but I wasn't expecting the audio advances, which are certainly worthy.
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Old 17-09-2006, 17:52   #143
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Glad things are working out for you. The audio improvements took me by surprise too - I was floored by Serenity's audio. Do you have any titles with TrueHD? It's definitely worth checking out for the sheer level of detail present in the soundscape.
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Old 17-09-2006, 18:08   #144
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What sort of audio equipment are you guys using?
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Old 17-09-2006, 18:59   #145
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Originally Posted by Dan
What sort of audio equipment are you guys using?
An Alba micro system.
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Old 17-09-2006, 23:01   #146
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An Alba micro system.
Pah, that's nothing compared to my system.

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Old 18-09-2006, 13:49   #147
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I have owned a vhs,laserdisc and dvd player,all used on the same 36" crt Panasonic television.When i received my dvd player,an old great Toshiba sd100(still going fine today) the difference in quality,usability,features and all round enjoyment was absolute.
I have to say reading through the original posters' comments,they became ever more absurd :ie not being able to watch a standard definition dvd again,how he notices noise reduction artifacts(whatever the hell that is),how a standard dvd is 1/8 of the resolution of a high definition dvd. .For the masses standard definition dvd is the medium of choice;there will of course be a minority who upgrade to high definition dvd,and desperately feel the need to trash the sheer greatness of the dvd revolution.
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Old 18-09-2006, 14:04   #148
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I have to say reading through the original posters' comments,they became ever more absurd :ie not being able to watch a standard definition dvd again,how he notices noise reduction artifacts(whatever the hell that is),how a standard dvd is 1/8 of the resolution of a high definition dvd.
I stand by all these comments. Care to enlighten me on what exactly about them is "absurd"?

EDIT: I never said standard DVDs were 1/8th of the resolution of HD DVDs. I said they were about 1/8th of the quality, which factors in far more than just bare number crunching (the noise reduction, filtering and edge enhancement problems I referenced). If you want to get technical, 1080p high definition is exactly 5 times the resolution of standard definition PAL and exactly 6 times the resolution of standard definition NTSC.

Last edited by Michael Mackenzie; 18-09-2006 at 14:13.
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Old 18-09-2006, 14:08   #149
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I have to say reading through the original posters' comments,they became ever more absurd :ie not being able to watch a standard definition dvd again,how he notices noise reduction artifacts(whatever the hell that is),how a standard dvd is 1/8 of the resolution of a high definition dvd.
What is absurd about any of this?

Not being able to watch an SD DVD again would be very limiting and I'm sure it was an exaggeration.

8 times is also an exaggeration but 5 times is pretty much exact (if we're talking PAL DVD). But remember that most standard def DVDs don't take advantage of all of those 720x576 pixels thanks to the excessive noise reduction and filtering that Michael mentioned.
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Old 18-09-2006, 14:58   #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lyris
But remember that most standard def DVDs don't take advantage of all of those 720x576 pixels thanks to the excessive noise reduction and filtering that Michael mentioned.

It's also worth noting that noise reduction and filtering of normal DVDs only happens on a display like an LCD or Plasma. There's no filtering required on a normal 50 or 60HZ CRT. Where a normal DVD will look much better, over being played on a LCD.

Last edited by thescrounger; 18-09-2006 at 14:59.
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Old 18-09-2006, 15:03   #151
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It's also worth noting that noise reduction and filtering of normal DVDs only happens on a display like an LCD or Plasma. There's no filtering required on a normal 50 or 60HZ CRT. Where a normal DVD will look much better, over being played on a LCD.
Not true.

Just about every DVD is filtered after telecine to ease the compression process. This is different to digital toying-around done by the display.

You're right when you say that it's more likely that a digital flat panel will offer the facility for NR like this, but you can disable it - unless the TV is really naff. A lot of CRT TVs also had noise reduction circuitry.
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Old 18-09-2006, 15:43   #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lyris
Not true.

Just about every DVD is filtered after telecine to ease the compression process. This is different to digital toying-around done by the display.

.
I'm talking about the process from player to screen. Where this is more likely to apply to flat panel screens that need to resize the original source material.

I wasn't talking about what happens when a film is encoded to MPEG2 for DVD production. Where does that come into the debate?

Last edited by thescrounger; 18-09-2006 at 15:45.
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Old 18-09-2006, 15:47   #153
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I'm talking about the process from player to screen. Where this is more likely to apply to flat panel screens that need to resize the original source material.
That would be scaling and perhaps deinterlacing - which should be (largely?) free of noise reduction.

Quote:
I wasn't talking about what happens when a film is encoded to MPEG2 for DVD production. Where does that come into the debate?
Well, it affects the quality tremendously.
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Old 18-09-2006, 16:08   #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lyris
That would be scaling and perhaps deinterlacing - which should be (largely?) free of noise reduction.
scaling = resizing. Will often introduce artifacts that need NR to hide them.



Quote:
Well, it affects the quality tremendously.
Of course it does, but so does it apply to the manufacture of HD-DVD and Bluray. As I said, I'm not sure that was specifically part of the debate we were having. Or specifically part of the point I was making.

Last edited by thescrounger; 18-09-2006 at 16:11.
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Old 18-09-2006, 18:34   #155
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I am talking about the whole impact of dvds as a product which the original poster seems to have missed.The humble shiny disc has educated the masses(including myself) to appreciate a widescreen presentation;it has engendered a love for the product through collecting which at times verges on the manic.The hours that people spend researching dvds,hoping their favourite film is available somewhere in the world.And so on.
Whatever the benefits of high definition dvd for those with large display devices,it is only an adjunct for a minority and does not in any way negate the package that you seemed to so disparage,namely standard defintion dvds.
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Old 18-09-2006, 19:48   #156
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Question - what happens if you get a HD-DVD player and watch a HD-DVD on a standard-definition TV, through S-Video, or (yuck!) composite video? Do you a) get a picture not appreciably different than standard DVD, b) get a picture slightly better than standard DVD, or c) get no picture at all? Yes, i know the very notion of watching a HD-DVD on a SDTV seems a little peculiar, but think about it. That way someone could start accumulating a collection of High-Def material and enjoy them without necessarily getting the best out of them, and then, when the time comes to finally upgrade to a HDTV, does not have to re-purchase all their DVD's on the HD-DVD or Blu-Ray format. Those with limited budgets or who want to wait for the price of HDTV sets to come down (which they will) would certainly want to consider this option, especially since HD-DVD will start to go day-and-date with standard DVD very soon.
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Old 18-09-2006, 20:07   #157
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Originally Posted by LouBarlow
I'm so, so tempted to box this whole mess up and flog it in the classifieds, as it is an absolutely tedious piece of kit, and life is too short.
I'd be interested....




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Old 18-09-2006, 20:07   #158
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Those with limited budgets should wait a few years to see which format if any wins the race otherwise they'll be investing in obsolete software.
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Old 18-09-2006, 20:40   #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief Brody
Question - what happens if you get a HD-DVD player and watch a HD-DVD on a standard-definition TV, through S-Video, or (yuck!) composite video? Do you a) get a picture not appreciably different than standard DVD, b) get a picture slightly better than standard DVD, or c) get no picture at all? Yes, i know the very notion of watching a HD-DVD on a SDTV seems a little peculiar, but think about it. That way someone could start accumulating a collection of High-Def material and enjoy them without necessarily getting the best out of them, and then, when the time comes to finally upgrade to a HDTV, does not have to re-purchase all their DVD's on the HD-DVD or Blu-Ray format. Those with limited budgets or who want to wait for the price of HDTV sets to come down (which they will) would certainly want to consider this option, especially since HD-DVD will start to go day-and-date with standard DVD very soon.
I've not tested it myself, but yes, I think you'll see a slight increase in quality. The thing to bear in mind is that most commercially available DVDs are so heavily filtered that they don't even come close to using the full resolution that the format allows. With a down-converted HD DVD, though, the player is working with a much higher source resolution and then scaling it down, so in theory at least what you see on the screen should actually use all 480 available lines of resolution. If you don't have an HDTV at the moment, though, I definitely wouldn't recommend buying into either of the high definition formats until the players come down in price. One thing that might be a good idea, though, is, if you intend to upgrade to HD DVD at some point in the future, to start buying DVD/HD DVD combo releases if they are available for titles that you're interested in. That way, although they tend to be slightly more expensive than a regular DVD, it'll mean that you won't need to rebuy them at a later date if you want to see them in high definition.
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Old 18-09-2006, 21:03   #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Mackenzie
That way, although they tend to be slightly more expensive than a regular DVD, it'll mean that you won't need to rebuy them at a later date if you want to see them in high definition.
Surely if HD DVD succeeds the discs will fall in price as they become more readily available just like DVD's have become cheap. Rather than waste your money now and risk buying into an obsolete format it's better to just wait.
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