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Old 31-12-2019, 10:30   #3761
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They do select the first frame the ball comes into contact with the foot. They just don't show it. We just have to assume they get it right unfortunately.

We're lucky we get to see the lines being drawn and worked out on the other end of the decision. Other countries don't show that at all.
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Old 31-12-2019, 10:32   #3762
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Offside has EVERYTHING to do when the ball is played. You can't just pick a moment and not show it. This is why it doesn't work, you can't get technical lines out and be mm perfect without doing the same at other points.



If you don't understand this I'm amazed you understand the offside rule fun stop.

Exactly this, thank you! If you can’t nail the moment the ball leaves the passers foot then you can’t possibly call onside or offside regardless of how many mm you can determine between the attackers.

If they really wanted to be that precise (which I still think it doesn’t need) then they should have deployed high speed cameras along with their red and blue line technology - and possibly even tracking cams like the athletics.

But instead they went half arsed and expected everyone to be OK with it.
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Old 31-12-2019, 11:48   #3763
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Please explain this utter hogwash of a sentence.
It was pointed out IIRC the very first time it was used. The VAR uses the very thin black lines ( which also get shown briefly on TV ) but for TV they get overlaid with the thicker, coloured, lines.

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Exactly this, thank you! If you can’t nail the moment the ball leaves the passers foot then you can’t possibly call onside or offside regardless of how many mm you can determine between the attackers.

If they really wanted to be that precise (which I still think it doesn’t need) then they should have deployed high speed cameras along with their red and blue line technology - and possibly even tracking cams like the athletics.

But instead they went half arsed and expected everyone to be OK with it.
For the purposes of the rule, and possibly VAR, the crucial moment is when the foot first comes into contact with the ball NOT when the ball leaves the foot. We are also talking cameras that run at 50fps ( not sure why they are not use faster ones TBH ) so at most are you wrong by 0.02 seconds.

Still I am sure it is far better to go back to a system where middle-aged men are expected to run at the same speed as Sterling whilst continually having one eye looking sideways and the other looking backwards

It may well not be 100% accurate but, unlike the old system, is near enough 100% consistent and far more accurate.

The A League has also already shown that VAR offsides using just "clear and obvious" ( with no lines drawn ) doesn't work - as TV showed plenty of their VAR decisions/non-overrules were wrong - so have ditched it to use the same system as the Premier League.


Sure, there are ways it can be easily be improved / extended ( with faster/more cameras, mic'ed up refs and VAR, etc ) but you assume that will come with time. Hopefully, eventually, they will fix my pet peeve where offside is only checked when it directly leads to a goal; numerous times, this season, teams have conceded from corners which were won by players who were clearly in an offside position but VAR never rules them out.

Last edited by AdamBrunt; 31-12-2019 at 12:14.
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Old 31-12-2019, 21:07   #3764
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Hopefully, eventually, they will fix my pet peeve where offside is only checked when it directly leads to a goal; numerous times, this season, teams have conceded from corners which were won by players who were clearly in an offside position but VAR never rules them out.
That's the can of worms they don't want to open though as then it will start to be used for every decision.

For me you have to change the offside rule for to be just the feet or clear distance between the attacker and defender. it would certainly result in more goals.

As it is now it's just causing frustration which should have been sorted out in testing.
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Old 31-12-2019, 21:25   #3765
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That wouldn't make any difference. You'd still be measuring potential offsides by mm and getting incredibly tight calls, which is exactly what we all have and hate already.
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Old 31-12-2019, 21:40   #3766
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That wouldn't make any difference. You'd still be measuring potential offsides by mm and getting incredibly tight calls, which is exactly what we all have and hate already.
But the calls would go in the attackers favour, what we have now favours defending.
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Old 31-12-2019, 21:50   #3767
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They're just both too problematic. Which body parts do you use for "daylight"? Their entire body? You'd get defenders doing silly contorted shapes to try and get people offside.

Which parts of the defender are measured against the attacker's feet? If it's both of their feet then that's just going to make people offside when they aren't.

Last edited by The Bear; 31-12-2019 at 21:51.
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Old 31-12-2019, 23:54   #3768
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They're just both too problematic. Which body parts do you use for "daylight"? Their entire body? You'd get defenders doing silly contorted shapes to try and get people offside.

Which parts of the defender are measured against the attacker's feet? If it's both of their feet then that's just going to make people offside when they aren't.
Game moves way, way too fast for anyone to move their body into a funny shape! I guess you could stick out an arm but you’d need to be bloody quick!

Feet would work fine for me though, got to be better than what we have now where a shoulder or nose sees you offside.
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Old 01-01-2020, 00:00   #3769
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For the feet thing, both of these would be given offside by an even bigger margin, when they're clearly level in any sensible world.

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Old 01-01-2020, 00:50   #3770
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It should just be whatever part of the body the attacker actually scores with against the closest part of the defender to the goal (arms and hands included). I know i got pulled up about not knowing the rules about arms before when it came to offside but when i thought about it a defender can score an own goal with his hand and it would stand so they should be in play too.

And if they start using VAR for corners and throw ins per the suggestion above matches will take hours to complete. It's already sucking the life out of the game as it is

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Old 01-01-2020, 23:11   #3771
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I think we all pretty much agree with the VAR offsides
Apart from Adam 😳
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Old 02-01-2020, 09:15   #3772
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Apart from Adam
I am all for changes to the system - just all the suggestions I have seen so far don't actually seem to solve the "we're talking mm here" issue but rather just move it to a different part of the body. So you either may as well leave it as it is or make a major change to the offside rule which doesn't inversely impact leagues which don't have VAR.
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Old 02-01-2020, 20:00   #3773
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I said it before, do away with the lines and stop pretending it can be forensically analysed accurately from a 2D image. Maybe just have the factual lines on the ground from the last foot of attacker/defender as a guide, but if it's not clear to the eyes of the VAR (who is an experienced official) in say 20-30 seconds then it's onside. Sorted.
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Old 02-01-2020, 20:49   #3774
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I said it before, do away with the lines and stop pretending it can be forensically analysed accurately from a 2D image. Maybe just have the factual lines on the ground from the last foot of attacker/defender as a guide, but if it's not clear to the eyes of the VAR (who is an experienced official) in say 20-30 seconds then it's onside. Sorted.
Cos you need the lines to work it out.

The A League has proved that not having the lines leads to incorrect calls - and they now use the lines.
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Old 03-01-2020, 10:08   #3775
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Didn't really need to get out of 2nd gear last night which was lucky as I thought some, especially Firmino, had a bit of a mare.

Presumably, as it was full strength yesterday, there will be changes for Sunday though hopefully not too many ... under Ancelotti they look a lot better than the team we played in the League a month ago. And there is also a week's rest after the game.
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Old 05-01-2020, 18:42   #3776
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Larouci where have you been hiding all this time?

And the goal
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Old 11-01-2020, 19:37   #3777
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Bit hairy second half, but ultimately spurs were relying on our errors to score. Fairly typically Mourinho.

Gomez seemed determined to gift them a goal.

Atkinson as terrible as ever.
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Old 11-01-2020, 20:52   #3778
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Atkinson is shocking when a game involves us. It's personal, unlike Taylor who is just generally inept,not biased.
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Old 11-01-2020, 23:44   #3779
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There were a few hairy moments and the last ten were a bit tense, but generally I thought we looked really comfortable and should have had the game wrapped up.

God knows what Boreinho was watching to think they deserved anything from that. I don't envy Spurs fans at the moment having him and his turgid, negative, defensive, "a draw is better than a defeat" football to watch.

Nevertheless, another win. Still....way too far to go and far too many times we've blown it to get to confident!
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Old 12-01-2020, 12:54   #3780
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Can't think Jose really believes they deservered points from that, do jack **** for 80 minutes to bore us into mistake and then miss 2 sitters? If good chances = goals then we'd have been out of sight anyway! If that's the genuine belief at Spurs then they're never going to bridge the gap.
As for his assertion that Robbo should've been sent off, he got the ball first in a 50-50 challenge and the players collided in the follow through, not even a foul and absolutely nothing like the Aubameyang red card.
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