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Old 10-11-2019, 22:12   #3621
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Originally Posted by Ravioli View Post
No, what I am saying is that the standard of rugby union officating is worse. The fact that players, coaches and fans don't talk about it, is because it is accepted that the ref's say is final.
That's just rubbish! RU is a more technical game but referees explain their decisions and the reasons for their decisions - that is the main reason why decisions are accepted without much complaint. At rugby Premiership levels and above the ref's decision making is explained not just to the players but to the coaches, commentators and fans. The ref's say is final in football too, as I'm sure you know.
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Old 10-11-2019, 23:33   #3622
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How’s the VAR conspiracy going Adam? Both those Liverpool goals could have been chalked off and they could have had a penalty....
There was nothing wrong with the 2nd or 3rd goal.

As for the penalty ... it only hit TAA's arm because it clearly hits Silva's arm first so not deliberate. It could also be argued that the new handball rule also means you can't award a penalty in that scenario.
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Old 11-11-2019, 05:11   #3623
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I agreed with that his arm was in a natural position, and that he didn't have enough time to get it out of the way.

I've seen them given, but there's not enough clarity to overturn it IMO.
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Old 11-11-2019, 08:42   #3624
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Originally Posted by AdamBrunt View Post
There was nothing wrong with the 2nd or 3rd goal.

As for the penalty ... it only hit TAA's arm because it clearly hits Silva's arm first so not deliberate. It could also be argued that the new handball rule also means you can't award a penalty in that scenario.


Agree with all that. So no conspiracy or corruption then, else surely the first would have been disallowed and City would have been given a penalty?
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Old 11-11-2019, 10:39   #3625
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Agree with all that. So no conspiracy or corruption then, else surely the first would have been disallowed and City would have been given a penalty?
Maybe the correct decision would be to disallow the goal and give a free kick to Liverpool for the hand ball by Silva, that would have created a goal scoring opportunity.
Part of the issue is that in Europe that is given as handball against TAA everytime In England it's 50/50, so if the ref doesn't give it VAR isn't going to overrule.
Why the argument about the second goal? Clearly Salah was onside, as VAR would have intervened if his toe or armpit was offside, as we have seen.
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Old 11-11-2019, 10:50   #3626
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That's just rubbish! RU is a more technical game but referees explain their decisions and the reasons for their decisions - that is the main reason why decisions are accepted without much complaint.
I agree about their decisions being accepted and have no issues with it. Football has a different mindset, which I think is partially because of the huge money involved and would be difficult to change.
The thing is half the time in rugby the ref is guessing about the reasons a scrum has gone down. Teams will deliberately play for scrub penalties, if they are percieved to have a strong scrum. Often props are penalised because of their reputation rather than what is actually happening. It's a bit like playing for a penalty corner in hockey by trying to hit the opponents foot with the ball. Personally I'd get rid of scrum penalties and give free kicks
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Old 11-11-2019, 10:53   #3627
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Agree with all that. So no conspiracy or corruption then, else surely the first would have been disallowed and City would have been given a penalty?
Ah, got you. Misunderstood your first post

Also, regarding the whole TAA's arm is unnatural position debate ... look at the replay and compare his arm's position to Aguero's. It's the same - so either they are both cheating or there is nothing unnatural about it

Last edited by AdamBrunt; 11-11-2019 at 11:18.
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Old 11-11-2019, 11:48   #3628
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Originally Posted by Ravioli View Post
I agree about their decisions being accepted and have no issues with it. Football has a different mindset, which I think is partially because of the huge money involved and would be difficult to change.
The thing is half the time in rugby the ref is guessing about the reasons a scrum has gone down. Teams will deliberately play for scrub penalties, if they are percieved to have a strong scrum. Often props are penalised because of their reputation rather than what is actually happening. It's a bit like playing for a penalty corner in hockey by trying to hit the opponents foot with the ball. Personally I'd get rid of scrum penalties and give free kicks
Again, this is just rubbish! Football's mindset has nothing to do with money - referees are badly abused at every level of the game in this country, including at mini and junior age groups.
It's easy to accuse any ref in any sport of guessing any number of decisions without any factual evidence.
Guesswork is what sees Son get sent off for a fairly innocuous foul against Everton, which is then overturned.
Will a rugby prop try to earn his team any penalty any more (or less) than a footballer will try to earn his team a free-kick? Doubtful, human nature being what it is.
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Old 11-11-2019, 11:58   #3629
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How’s the VAR conspiracy going Adam? Both those Liverpool goals could have been chalked off and they could have had a penalty....
There is a meeting in London today between all prem league clubs and chief referee Mike Riley to discuss VAR. one of the topics is use of pitch side monitors by the on field ref. Apparently they haven’t been used as Mike Riley advised the refs not to as he felt it would disrupt the game too much. I’m guessing that after today’s meeting we might see a few changes for VAR use. Some of the recent offside decisions have been ridiculous.

Last edited by Bravoman; 11-11-2019 at 12:00.
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Old 11-11-2019, 12:00   #3630
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Guesswork is what sees Son get sent off for a fairly innocuous foul against Everton, which is then overturned.
That isn't guesswork ... that is just a blatant disregard for the rules of the game from the one person who should know them inside out - the ref
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Old 11-11-2019, 12:08   #3631
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I don't mind saying City were fantastic last night, it just didn't land for them. Had that penalty been given, and I think we can all agree there have been games when it would've, I think City might have won the game.

Lovren was same standard as normal, looked scared of the ball, didn't know what to do with it when he got it, his passes were poor quality, can't understand how the guy keep starting.

Brilliant result, long, long way to go though...
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Old 11-11-2019, 12:38   #3632
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Looked like it came off Bernardo Silva’s hand first to me? I didn’t watch the full debrief, but Sky didn’t seem too bothered about it, although I think Neville mentioned in commentary
It clearly came off Silva's hand, so under the current rules it's a free kick if "a player gets the ball using his or her arm or hand and then scores, or creates a goalscoring opportunity", which means there's no way it could have been a penalty - despite Kompany insisting it should've been because it was accidental
I don't think it's clear whether Trent's arm was in an unnatural position, it certainly wasn't above shoulder height, particularly as there is more leeway if the ball is deflected, it's the ref's judgement call - which he deemed as ok as did VAR.

Also, haven't seen much mention in the wake of Pep's "diving" statement that it was in fact only Sterling who was guilty of "going down easily" in the box. Shearer's been very vociferous about Mane/Salah making the most of contact this season but it wasn't even on the highlights of MOTD2
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Old 11-11-2019, 12:47   #3633
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There is a meeting in London today between all prem league clubs and chief referee Mike Riley to discuss VAR. one of the topics is use of pitch side monitors by the on field ref. Apparently they haven’t been used as Mike Riley advised the refs not to as he felt it would disrupt the game too much. I’m guessing that after today’s meeting we might see a few changes for VAR use. Some of the recent offside decisions have been ridiculous.
The disruption argument is a bit pathetic when we can stop the game for 2-3 minutes whilst the VAR official decides on a tight offside! If there's a worry that the ref running over to look at a screen takes a bit too long, then surely someone could invent some sort of handheld device capable of playing video which the ref could refer to? I dunno, something that would easily fit in a pocket, being the size of the red/yellow cards or refs notebook. Maybe something the size of a mobile phone I'm no expert though, but does such a device exist
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Old 11-11-2019, 13:11   #3634
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I am not a fan but thought Lovren was very good yesterday.

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Old 11-11-2019, 13:13   #3635
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Originally Posted by cheeseypuffs View Post
The disruption argument is a bit pathetic when we can stop the game for 2-3 minutes whilst the VAR official decides on a tight offside! If there's a worry that the ref running over to look at a screen takes a bit too long, then surely someone could invent some sort of handheld device capable of playing video which the ref could refer to? I dunno, something that would easily fit in a pocket, being the size of the red/yellow cards or refs notebook. Maybe something the size of a mobile phone I'm no expert though, but does such a device exist
I don’t think anyone expected such delays as we are getting at the minute...or follow rugby’s example and just put it on the big screen so the ref Make his decision and fans can see what’s happening
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Old 11-11-2019, 14:40   #3636
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I am not a fan but thought Lovren was very good yesterday.

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Don't get me wrong, it wasn't the worst I've seen him play I'm just of the opinion the lads a donkey
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Old 11-11-2019, 16:53   #3637
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I think when he makes a mistake he's prone to making more, such as against Spurs the other year - although not on the Karius scale. He's a good defender and is capable of going on a run of decent games, but you worry when the wheels are going to fall off. How many of the rest of our squad have played in a World Cup semi final, let alone a final?
I reckon Pep would take him to fill in for Laporte - and probably ahead of Stones TBH - he'd probably start for Manu and possibly Chelsea, and he's better than anyone at Arsenal
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Old 12-11-2019, 09:51   #3638
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Again, this is just rubbish! Football's mindset has nothing to do with money - referees are badly abused at every level of the game in this country, including at mini and junior age groups.
It's easy to accuse any ref in any sport of guessing any number of decisions without any factual evidence.
Guesswork is what sees Son get sent off for a fairly innocuous foul against Everton, which is then overturned.
Will a rugby prop try to earn his team any penalty any more (or less) than a footballer will try to earn his team a free-kick? Doubtful, human nature being what it is.
Sorry but your first bit is rubbish. Refs in football get abused, because it is seen to be acceptable at the very highest level. If you cut it out at that level, eventually it would filter down. Rugby union was an amateur game and the respect goes back to then.
Not sure your point on Son, the ref got it right initially with a yellow card.
Finally your last point backs up my point. The thing is Rugby is held up as this bastion of fair play.
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Old 12-11-2019, 09:55   #3639
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Lovren was same standard as normal, looked scared of the ball, didn't know what to do with it when he got it, his passes were poor quality, can't understand how the guy keep starting.
We also miss Matip’s heading ability in our box.
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Old 12-11-2019, 10:41   #3640
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We also miss Matip’s heading ability in our box.
You can't say that ... according to City fans, we don't have any problems due to o missing key injured players
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