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Old 25-04-2020, 21:22   #1
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The end of the (football) season

I wanted to take this out of the Liverpool thread because it applies to loads of other clubs aswell. But what do we do about the end of the football season?

UEFA's official line is:

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Leagues should 'explore all possible options' to reach a natural conclusion. If this cannot happen 'suspended domestic competitions should restart with a different format'.
But there's going to need to be an imaginative response to this, more imaginative than simply pretending nothing has changed and playing the remaining games to empty stadiums.

In the Premier League, it's hard to argue against anything other than saying Liverpool are champions, but I'm not sure how you can make different rules for different positions: top 8 are all in with a shout of different versions of Europe, relegation very much in play. And the other divisions would be a total mess.

I'm increasingly coming around to the idea that we need to cancel the whole thing. Liverpool fans will say I'm being predictable cos I don't want them to win it, so here's the thread where the solutions get posted. Fire away.
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Old 25-04-2020, 21:35   #2
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I’m not a Liverpool fan and, as a a Spurs fan, I’d like nothing more than to see this season erased from history but it doesn’t seem right to do anything other than to complete the season. I don’t care if it is finished by extending the season by months, by using pools panel predictions or FIFA battles but the season should be finished. It’s Liverpool’s title and they deserve it to be awarded, more so than any team in recent memory.
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Old 25-04-2020, 22:08   #3
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Sentimentality.

Void the lot. Start again.

If Liverpool are all that then they’ll **** the next league as well.

With a huge artificial break the league is already compromised versus a normal year
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Old 25-04-2020, 22:14   #4
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Is there a point to scrapping this season when there's no guarantee next season will be able to start? If it can't be finished i'd promote WBA and Leeds and have no relegation, relegate 5 next season to rebalance. Or go for a PPG Average,which is unfair as it doesn't take into account level of difficulty per game.

I think they'll try and finish it BCD but not sure if that'll succeed,it'll take one positive test and that's that.
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Old 25-04-2020, 23:23   #5
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I think that’s the issue really.

I think since no team has mathematically won anything just void the lot.

Would you want to win the league with a * next to it forever more?
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Old 26-04-2020, 08:01   #6
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If Manchester City just conceded, then that would fix the Liverpool issue but is that really what Liverpool would want? And it seems a bit sentimental - if they'd won the league last year I doubt there would be the urge to try and find a way to confirm their victory this year. We'd be doing it for sentimental reasons. It does seem unfair for them not to win, but it's hardly the only unfair thing going on at the moment.

The problem is that any restarting of the season, especially while we're still under lockdown and social distancing, is going to look and feel wrong. Try telling little Jimmy he can't go and play football with his mates once he's seen the season resume. It goes against the 'we're all in this together' thing. And if just one player gets Covid19 then the whole thing would have to grind to a halt again. So if 2019/20 is to finish, I can't see any other way of doing it other than with some maths formula that will be both arbitrary and open to a legal challenge for those that lose out.

(It's not just about Liverpool, either. United were going good to get top 4 this year, cancelling it will mean another season of Thursday night Europe which would be 'unfair' - but hard to know what other solutions there are).
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Old 26-04-2020, 10:14   #7
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I don't understand why so many people are so much more concerned with a future season that hasn't even begun yet over a season that is three quarters of the way through?

Why is a season that has not been started more important than one that is mostly completed? It makes no sense to just ditch the current season, or to end it early based on current positions.

Liverpool aside, there are so many issues that would be unresolved and there would be no way to fairly resolve them, plus the financial impact.

Why should teams currently fighting relegation get given a free pass to a new season?
Why should teams in the Championship who have spent a lot of money and played a lot of football have to miss out on the chance at the Premier League's riches?
How would they decide who gets into the European tournaments next season? Assuming City's ban is upheld, Man United currently hold a Champions League place, but Sheffield United have one game in hand on them that would put them in that place.
What's to stop clubs from lower leagues that could have been promoted taking legal action for compensation at missing the riches of a higher league?

It just makes utterly no sense at all to just wipe it away and start again. No one knows when the next season could start, or even if that would be uninterupted by a further spread of Covid.

The only sensible and fair way is for all league to complete current seasons in full when they are able to, whether it's behind closed doors or waiting until crowds can attend - there is no reason that a season must be completed within a certain time frame and can't be extended.

Then they would be able to make decisions on how the next season can work, whether it's ditching all cup competitions for a season, or even not having the next season and starting the following one earlier. It's a lot easier to change future seasons than it is to change a current one that's nearing completion, and none of the above issues I've listed would be issues for a future season.
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Old 26-04-2020, 11:36   #8
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Agree with all that. I can’t see any valid reason not to complete this season, whenever that may be.
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Old 26-04-2020, 12:05   #9
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I can’t see how they can’t complete the season. However I feel the final table will look different to how it might have finished with teams having access to players who wouldn’t have finished the season due to injury.

I think the players will be properly tested before each game and played behind closed doors...I can’t imagine crowds before 2021 unless some miracle vaccine appears. It depends whether the emergency services have capacity to provide any ambulances or police if needed?

At least there are talks due next week to discuss how to proceed.
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Old 26-04-2020, 13:04   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevie G View Post
I don't understand why so many people are so much more concerned with a future season that hasn't even begun yet over a season that is three quarters of the way through?

Why is a season that has not been started more important than one that is mostly completed? It makes no sense to just ditch the current season, or to end it early based on current positions.

Liverpool aside, there are so many issues that would be unresolved and there would be no way to fairly resolve them, plus the financial impact.

Why should teams currently fighting relegation get given a free pass to a new season?
Why should teams in the Championship who have spent a lot of money and played a lot of football have to miss out on the chance at the Premier League's riches?
How would they decide who gets into the European tournaments next season? Assuming City's ban is upheld, Man United currently hold a Champions League place, but Sheffield United have one game in hand on them that would put them in that place.
What's to stop clubs from lower leagues that could have been promoted taking legal action for compensation at missing the riches of a higher league?

It just makes utterly no sense at all to just wipe it away and start again. No one knows when the next season could start, or even if that would be uninterupted by a further spread of Covid.

The only sensible and fair way is for all league to complete current seasons in full when they are able to, whether it's behind closed doors or waiting until crowds can attend - there is no reason that a season must be completed within a certain time frame and can't be extended.

Then they would be able to make decisions on how the next season can work, whether it's ditching all cup competitions for a season, or even not having the next season and starting the following one earlier. It's a lot easier to change future seasons than it is to change a current one that's nearing completion, and none of the above issues I've listed would be issues for a future season.
Totally agree. And if they can get this going again before the end of the year then all players could get decent rests between games. This means the international ones might actually be fully fit and not knackered for the Euros next summer.
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Old 26-04-2020, 16:41   #11
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Finish the season. I agree with the point above about the fact that we don't even know when next season can start so why not just plough on no matter how long it takes?

Having said that, even as a City fan, I'd be happy for Liverpool to be awarded the title.

It's more of an issue for promotion and relegation, but and old-school 22-team top division for a season with 5 teams being relegated is also a great idea.

I also saw something on Football365 a few weeks ago that said why not carry on the season but with each match played being a double-header. I.e. The result counts to both this and next season, with any results against the teams ultimately relegated being voided. The only problem with this would be the number of games the promoted teams might have to catch up on.
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Old 26-04-2020, 16:51   #12
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Still massively unbalanced, some teams will be playing reverse fixtures without the advantage of their home crowd.

Void the season, they need a whole pre season again anyway before starting.
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Old 26-04-2020, 18:30   #13
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Still massively unbalanced, some teams will be playing reverse fixtures without the advantage of their home crowd.

Void the season, they need a whole pre season again anyway before starting.
No they don't. If anything they could come back end of May/June to finish the current season and then start again in August with minimal rest.

The funny thing about the void camp is that most of them seem to think that as long as this seaso is voided now then the 20/21 season is going to start on time, with fans in attendance and with no hitches due to 2nd wave of Covid-19. Totally deluded. There is no logic in potentially voiding 2 seasons ( which you'd have to if you void the current cos that would be the only fair solution ) when with a sensible approach you might not need to void any.

It is the, strange, fake morality in the void camp that does my head in. "people are dying we must void the season" as if that will stop the deaths LOL. And don't even get me started on Karen Brady - her sole motivation is to stop West Ham getting relegated even though that is arguably what their abject performances this season deserve.

Someone should say to Brady "OK, we'll void it but if we do no one gets any prize money and everyone has to contribute equally to the £750M we will owe Sky & BT". She would soon change her tune.

Everyone also seems to have forgotten UEFA's recent clarification that voided leagues get no entrants to next season's European competitions. And despite what certain pundits/papers would have you believe no European league has so far voided their season. Participants for next season must be based on merit solely based on this season. Unless the season finishes naturally then that is Arsenal, Spurs and possibly Man United all missing out on CL next season

I also don't get the asterisk argument either; sure, Liverpool haven't mathematically secured the title (yet) but the only way it wouldn't have happened is for City ( longest winning streak this season is 3 games ) to win all of their last 10 games whilst Liverpool ( 2 league defeats in 2 years ) lose 7 out of 9. Try getting odds on that The Celtic boss came out today saying there is no way Celtic weren't going to won the SPL ( and their advantage is only half that of Liverpool's ). Whichever way you cut them, UEFA's latest guidelines have pretty much guaranteed Liverpool the title.

But for me, as others have said, Liverpool's 'undisputed' title isn't the real problem here ( and even if you don't do relegation/promotion there is zero reason to not honour the team that finished top of the entire league structure ). The problem is with the likes of Sheff Utd, Villa, Leeds and West Brom. Leeds and West Brom would be well within their rights to sue the Premier League for 100s of millions if they don't get promoted.

I don't think playing BCD is as bad as some are making out; home advantage, for me, is more about familiarity with the pitch/facilities than the fan support.And since everyone has roughly the same amount of home and away games left it is no real disadvantage to any team

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Old 26-04-2020, 20:08   #14
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If the season is voided, how much compensation will they pay to Leeds and WBA?

I don’t think Premier League fans understand how much this means to fans of clubs who’ve been chasing promotion for years!
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Old 26-04-2020, 20:33   #15
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Selfish declaration, this is probably the best chance Forest have had to get promoted in years, we've been more likely to be relegated back to L1, than getting in the PL.

I don't see the point in voiding the season for no reason at this stage

1. There is no real idea when we might resume football. We've got a season 3/4 finished, why would we sack it off? Then what would we do, play no football until Christmas maybe? Maybe later and then sack off another season? You might as well at least hold out and see where it's all going.

2. The money - Same in a lot of sports and they're clearly trying to come up with something, same in Rugby League, I'm not saying people are against ending the season or something, but at the same time what are they expecting? That SKY will pay for the right to show repeats of Wimbledon vs Forest from 1996?

The country seems unable to allow the football clubs to claim a bit of money for the many people who are not working, they'd lose their **** when they're going to have to find a billion quid.

I really cannot see how why can't come up with a solution for elite sport. Do some testing, etc. Play the games behind closed doors.
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Old 26-04-2020, 20:36   #16
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Quote:
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No they don't. If anything they could come back end of May/June to finish the current season and then start again in August with minimal rest.
So how long will that have been since they last trained together? Longer or shorted than they usually have off in the summer before coming back and having a month of pre season?

If they don’t need one now why do they have one in the summer before a new season?
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Old 26-04-2020, 20:53   #17
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So how long will that have been since they last trained together? Longer or shorted than they usually have off in the summer before coming back and having a month of pre season?

If they don’t need one now why do they have one in the summer before a new season?
They haven't been training together, true, but similarly they haven't all been sitting round playing FIFA for the past 5 weeks either..

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If the season is voided, how much compensation will they pay to Leeds and WBA?
At the very minimum they'd have a claim for at least £100M each as that is the prize money you get for finishing 20th in the Premier League. And add on lost TV revenue and the sum soon shoots up even further. At the other end of the table you'd have teams who could have qualified for the CL suing for £40/50M each in lost CL money

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I don’t think Premier League fans understand how much this means to fans of clubs who’ve been chasing promotion for years!
There's a similar argument going round about Liverpool ... "if they're that good then they'll easily win it again next season anyway". What if they don't ?

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Selfish declaration, this is probably the best chance Forest have had to get promoted in years, we've been more likely to be relegated back to L1, than getting in the PL.

I don't see the point in voiding the season for no reason at this stage

1. There is no real idea when we might resume football. We've got a season 3/4 finished, why would we sack it off? Then what would we do, play no football until Christmas maybe? Maybe later and then sack off another season? You might as well at least hold out and see where it's all going.
The other thing that many people seem to be missing is that the seasons were going to have to be re-jigged to cope with WC 2022 which takes place in a December. This situation seems like a handy way of fixing that conundrum as well

I see Serie A is due to return to full group training on May 18th. Everyone keeps banging on how we are exactly 2 weeks behind Italy so shouldn't be long now

Last edited by AdamBrunt; 26-04-2020 at 21:25.
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Old 27-04-2020, 09:09   #18
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They haven't been training together, true, but similarly they haven't all been sitting round playing FIFA for the past 5 weeks either..

I assume you're being sarcastic.

They'll need a pre-season, unless they've all had coaches round giving them organised drills in their garden. They've had longer off than they would in the summer, but just because they've gone on a treadmill a few times they suddenly dont need a pre-season.
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Old 27-04-2020, 10:28   #19
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Even if they've been training themselves there's being fit and then there's being match fit. The 2 are completely different.

Some other potential problems I've read about in the past few days are players contracts running out, tv rights issues, kit sponsorship deals running out and general fixture congestion when looked at in the big scheme of things (European and international competitions etc).

Holland just cancelled their league with Belgium about to follow suit. Who knows what will happen in the premier league. You'd have though each league would have to adopt the same approach to allow 'normality' to return. I doubt having each league at different stages would work for European competition

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Old 27-04-2020, 10:34   #20
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They're always whingeing for a winter break, they've had one.

I'm guessing a couple of weeks will be enough as a pre-season, I imagine the whole thing will take that long to organise anyway. As far as I can work out, they're only at the discussion stage of what they might do, they're a good month away from anything happening at the point they agree to do anything.

I guess they'll look at Italy and see how it goes.

Or maybe Liverpool fans should just accept they're destined never to win the Premier League.
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