Revenge of the Sith - Reviewed

[Desk]

Originally Posted by Chief Brody

Not for me. Episode 3 is so far ahead of the first two prequels it's almost untrue. It's far tighter, leaner and less flabby in it's pacing and storytelling. The theater scene and the Order 66 sequence are some of the most powerful moments in the whole of the saga.

The theater scene bored me rigid. It was symptomatic of Sith's woeful structural problems - lots of big, stupid action sequences punctuated by long, leaden conversations which were presumably intended to advance the plot but only served to show how stupid and two-dimensional the characters were.

The Order 66 sequence might have been effective had you actually had any sympathy with the Jedi. However, as they'd behaved like half-witted, blinkered incompetents, wholly undeserving of their lofty, mythical status, I didn't give a fig when they got their comeuppance.

Apart from Vader's 'Noooooooooo!', the 'No, i'm so in love with YOU' conversation and Palpatine's gurning as he anoints Anakin as Darth Vader, i didn't see a whole lot wrong with Episode 3 at all. Sorry if that doesn't jibe with received wisdom on these forums, but wouldn't things be boring if we all had the same opinions?

I have an endless list of complaints about the film, but one of my biggest gripes is the incredibly inconsistent tone of the whole thing. In one sequence you have Obi Wan, the film's hero, charging along atop a cute, domesticated giant lizard in a sequence obviously designed to thrill the kiddies, and yet later he cold-bloodedly lops off his best friend's arms and legs, and leaves him horrifically burning alive.

It was all so crass and hamfisted, as if Lucas hadn't a clue what audience this film was being aimed at.

It certainly wasn't me, for one.

[DrZarkov]

Vader taking that first breath in his mask was worth the admissision money for me

I also really liked the ending. Seeing them staring out at the two suns on Tatooine was such a good way to end the movie and fits perfectly in with picking up the story in the originals.

[DeadKenny]

Originally Posted by DrZarkov

I also really liked the ending. Seeing them staring out at the two suns on Tatooine was such a good way to end the movie and fits perfectly in with picking up the story in the originals.

Even if there's a whole mess of continuity surrounding it

[Niceguygeoff]

Originally Posted by Grandmaster

It's not about nostalgia, it's about the quality of the stories being told, the quality of the characters and how they express themselves, pacing and even basics such as editing.

Some of that I agree with (the prequels would really benefit from a swaggering Han Solo type) but the rest is rose-tinted specs territory. Pacing? The original film gets slower than a sandcrawler after that explosive opening (makes me sleepy every time) and the glossed over timeline of Empire (Luke does how much training??) is laughable.

The OT characters are lively, but at the same time they're blandly archetypal and are saddled with some hideous dialogue, and some of the performances are terrible. I especially can't stand Hamill's turn in the original, and he doesn't get much better as the movies progress (his stilted reaction to Yoda's death in Jedi is priceless: first the puzzled face, then the astonished face, capped off with a soppy puppy-dog expression ).

Originally Posted by Grandmaster

In terms of the thorny issue of CG, the plain and simple fact of the matter is that it's harder for the audience to invest in the believability of what they are watching if it does not look real.

Taken at face value, that stands to reason. But every time I see a garbage matte surrounding a TIE fighter, or look upon an obviously painted backdrop laid over a pocket of live action, I get taken out of the movie. I can forgive these artefacts just as I can forgive the occasional flat CG background or dodgy CG clonetrooper. As Lucas says, film is an illusion, and we all have to suspend our disbelief as soon as the lights die down.

My point is that none of these films are perfect. The originals are more fun, such is their simplistic structure and the ever-present menace of Darth Vader, but I still get so much enjoyment from the prequels. The pod-race in Phantom Menace is still breathtaking, as is the Darth Maul three-way (oo-er), and to see the Jedi go to war in Clones thrills me every time. Yoda vs. Dooku is an equally thrilling moment (the only time I've ever heard a collective intake of breath from a cinema audience) and the astonishing opening shot of Sith is a beautiful, bewildering statement of Lucas' increased confidence as a filmmaker. The rise of creepy Palpatine from Senator to Emperor is fascinating to trace through the three films, and his ordered destruction of the Jedi is a heart-breaker for me (as someone who - shock horror - actually has sympathy with the Jedi ).

Originally Posted by Grandmaster (again - sorry mate)

The duels should be as much about conflicts of personality/motivation as they are about the swordplay. This is what works so well in the original trilogy (even with the first tepid duel in Star Wars) and what is lacking in the prequels.

That may be what's lacking in Phantom Menace and Clones, but it's simply not the case with the Obi/Anakin duel in Sith. As much as it was hyped up as the swordfight to end all swordfights, it's more of an emotional conflict between former friends; the master and his student. And some complain about the style of this fight, but I wasn't looking for every move to be sweetly executed with perfect coverage like the rhythmic, measured Darth Maul showdown. It's plainly a rougher, tougher contest with the future of the galaxy at stake, hence the break-neck editing and in-your-face shot selection.

Like the OT fights, I have such an emotional investment in the combatants that the style of the fight is not my major concern, but rather the life-or-death struggle between Anakin and Obi-Wan and the ideologies that they represent. But hey, if all you did was grumble your way through the prequels after Phantom Menace (why did you then go back to see the other two? ) then I guess that that emotional investment isn't gonna be forthcoming...

[thescrounger]

Phantom Menace as a film had a bit of personality to it, it may have sagged a bit in the middle, but it had plenty of breathing space and loads of character moments. These things were lacking in the two films that followed, they were too clinical and litterally an exercise in join the dots without even sniffing the scenery. I admit that some of the deleted scenes of Anakin and Padme's relationship in AOTC shouldn't have been cut as they added some much needed depth that was severely lacking.

[Niceguygeoff]

I agree about the deleted scenes for Clones. There's one moment that catches Padme gazing wistfully out of her kitchen window at Anakin which said more than that soppy arena speech ever could.

[Aretak]

Finally watched this for the first time last night, and I have to say that I thought it was fantastic.

I enjoyed every minute of it, even the cheesy bits (the "Noooooooo!" bit did make me burst out laughing though). Honestly, I don't care about the flaws -- the film was one of the most entertaining two and a bit hours that I've ever experienced on DVD. I'm just glad that I enjoyed the film, and haven't become as jaded and cynical as some people here, who seem incapable of enjoying anything.

My only regret is that that's it... no more Star Wars to watch.

[Liquid_Language]

Originally Posted by Niceguygeoff

Some of that I agree with (the prequels would really benefit from a swaggering Han Solo type) but the rest is rose-tinted specs territory. Pacing? The original film gets slower than a sandcrawler after that explosive opening (makes me sleepy every time) and the glossed over timeline of Empire (Luke does how much training??) is laughable.

I agree. The opening 40+ minutes of A New Hope is very tedious, with things not really moving until the docking bay fray. I couldn't believe how slow moving it was until i re-viewed it the other night after watching Sith.

[Mevlock]

Originally Posted by Aretak

and haven't become as jaded and cynical as some people here, who seem incapable of enjoying anything.

My only regret is that that's it... no more Star Wars to watch.

I don't think we've become jaded or cynical. Many of us have just grown older and we now have higher expectations even when it comes to cheap popcorn entertainment, we've seen crap like RoTS soooo many times before. Serenity for example there's a great, fun, action sci-fi film which blew RotS out of the water. Well written, directed, acted and tightly plotted. Plus plenty of laughs along the way. If only we had more films of it's calibur instead of dross like RotS. Ok it wasn't THAT bad I did enjoy it a little but it could have been so much better.

Oh and there's plenty of Star Wars to come yet. Sadly enough. I'm sure you'll love the new tv series for example even if the jaded and cynical amongst us don't

[zantarous]

Originally Posted by Liquid_Language

I agree. The opening 40+ minutes of A New Hope is very tedious, with things not really moving until the docking bay fray. I couldn't believe how slow moving it was until i re-viewed it the other night after watching Sith.

There is a very interesting comment from Lucas on the New Hope commentary track regarding this issue. As he puts it in 77 when the film was released everything was new for cinema goers films generally didn’t have droids or any of the other things you see on the first 30 minutes and as such time passed very quickly. However fast forward to today and these things are a common place and such can seem very slow.

[anephric]

As good as the Duel of the Fates Maul/Qui-Gon/Obi Wan truel is in TPM, Lucas utterly ruins it (for me) by re-using the brutally unpleasant device of crosscutting between it and Anakin's ridiculous attack on the Federation ship (a device he uses in IV, V and VI as well, and the further prequels, to less vomitous effect)...

Whatever power the scene has is hamstrung by this (and the concomitantly ridiculous coup de grace - an utterly nonsensical bit of plotting that Lucas repeats in RotS: "I have the higher ground!"). I appreciate that it's a continuance of a stylistic methodology but still...

[FishBoy]

I've just had the misfortune to sit through this heap of kak. What a sorry excuse for a film - Lucas clearly couldn't direct a school nativity play. It lurches from one ludicrous, pointless scene to another. Hayden Christensen has about as much charisma as a fence post, and would be out-acted by said object. The dialogue is pathetic. The whole thing is unbelievably childish, from the stupid playground names (Dukoo, Amidala, General Grievous) to the non-existent plot. Why does one of the robots have a cough? It's a ******* robot.

What a "grievous" waste of ******* time.

[Alan b]

You have done well to avoid it this long.

Moving..

[LooneyJetman]

Originally Posted by FishBoy

Why does one of the robots have a cough? It's a ******* robot.

Grievous is a cyborg. His internal organs, including lungs, are inside his armour plating and it is those that burn when Obi-wan shoots him later on in the film. I think there is a shot where Obi-wan pulls the armour plating open during the battle, exposing them. I've always thought that Grievous is supposed to be forshadowing Vader.

[JimDriver2]

Grievous gets the cough from a fight he has in the Clone Wars animated prequel, part 2 I think. (not the one coming out, but the hand drawn one that came in 2 volumes.)

[zantarous]

Looking back on the prequels you realise how rubbish they really were and not a patch on the originals. It is a shame as it is such a beautifully crafted universe with endless tales to be told, just unfortunately for Lucas he seems to have surrounded himself with yes men and no one had the balls to say that something sucked.

I shan’t berate the man, he made the prequels the way he wanted and financed them himself a feat very few directors could do (or risk doing). Hopefully he will be taking a back seat with the live action TV show and we will finally get something grand out of the Star Wars universe.

[nwgarratt]

Originally Posted by FishBoy

Why does one of the robots have a cough? It's a ******* robot.

What a "grievous" waste of ******* time.

He is more or less a cyborg with organic parts. Windu injuries him during a fight in the clone wars (shown in the DVD) and crushes his chest plates.

[kaneda]

Originally Posted by zantarous

Looking back on the prequels you realise how rubbish they really were and not a patch on the originals.

Honestly not so sure about that. I've sat through episode 4, twice through in the last week and as mentioned above it drags for 2/3rds of the film. Haven't seen the film in about 10 years and it hasn't aged that well.

The prequels have similar faults they all dragged at times, had wafer thin plots and dislikeable characters but not too far removed from the original(s) in that respect. But they also have their moments much like episode 4s climatic Death Star assault scene the final half hour of the prequels were just as enjoyable.
Hoping to work through the entire series and i'll past judgement after.

[gjkendall]

Originally Posted by zantarous

Looking back on the prequels you realise how rubbish they really were and not a patch on the originals. It is a shame as it is such a beautifully crafted universe with endless tales to be told, just unfortunately for Lucas he seems to have surrounded himself with yes men and no one had the balls to say that something sucked.

I shan’t berate the man, he made the prequels the way he wanted and financed them himself a feat very few directors could do (or risk doing). Hopefully he will be taking a back seat with the live action TV show and we will finally get something grand out of the Star Wars universe.

What risk was there? Surley Star Wars is a licence to print money!

[Niceguygeoff]

Originally Posted by gjkendall

What risk was there? Surley Star Wars is a licence to print money!

Even so, he paid for all three prequels out of his own pocket, which at $300+ million is a heck of a chunk of change to splurge on reactivating a franchise which had been dormant for 20 years. And don't call me surley.